View Full Version : Concerns about Ingame Stealing
Birdman[H.E.]
19-07-04, 03:22
What if a player who is repairing things in plaza steal your stuff?
Well there is nothing ingame you can do about it, even by killing him you wont get your rare item back, just a belt or some PA.
What if your clan leader takes away with all the rare pool of the clan?
Well this thing happened to me a player called [ edited ] in saturn did all this things ingame, he stoled rare things he should repair for players in plaza, and also left his clan with all the rare pool.
His argument for not giving back the stuff to his members were everybody talking bad things about him.
Well if you are in a TG clan, and joined TG couse a guy you meet occasionally want to invite you to a new clan, to realise after 1 week or 2, this guy takes his alts to BD, this becomes frustrating.
Well there is nothing ingame i can do about it, or the players that were robbed or abused by this greedy char.
Dont tell me to hire mercs or whetever else you want, couse there is safe zones in this game, you cant do nothing there.
So far all i can tell you is dont trust this player, but still others might do the same, and there is nothing a decent player can do about it.
[ edited ] in Saturn< Should be banned from tradeskillers, well he can get his chars renamed.
shouldn't mention names, but i do agree that those who steal are pretty Low, but then in real life those who steal are pretty low too :)
Just have to build a trust with people.
Well, I wish that they (KK) would do something, but they have somewhat of a "hands-off" approach to these things. Currently it comes down to the player to figure out whether the tradeskiller is trustworthy or not, but due to the lack of good tradeskillers and especially repairers, this is difficult. I'm all for requiring some sort of registering for tradeskills so that a new title will be in your name displaying your tradeskill values, but meh.
The entire tradeskill system needs a complete recoding from the ground up, but don't expect anything until at least a couple months after BDoY comes out.
--Stryfe
Don't name names, it's not fair or allowed on the forums...
that said cheating sucks, KK or the community needs to do something about it.
there is no rules u give ur stuff out then u have to half expect it to be stolen
Rule no.1 = Trust no one
Rule no.2 = Trust no 2
Rule no.3 = well u can guess the rest
Dribble Joy
19-07-04, 03:34
My clan used to keep rares, parts and imps in the clan apt.
Then one day it was cleaned out.
It was a harsh lesson, but one that was deserved.
Nothing of value is kept there, only things like armour and weapons for use as lvling tools and some bps.
I now never use a tradeskiller outside my clan for anything that involves a rare or anything of value.
I like the system, it teaches you to be paranoid but still allows for trust to be made.
Trust is part of the game. If someone screws you over, don't deal with them again and put out a bounty on their tags. due to the lack of good tradeskillers and especially repairers, this is difficult. If you can't find a trustworthy tradeskiller, make one yourself...I'm all for requiring some sort of registering for tradeskills so that a new title will be in your name displaying your tradeskill values, but meh.You can have that the moment you agree to give me access to your CON/DEX/STR setups over your head or in Citycom.
This is the way the game works. If you want to change it, create trustworthy tradeskill characters yourself. If you think it's too much time and effort, tough. I created mine. I see no reason why others shouldn't do the same.
Weird. My char Delatisk on Saturn has had several chars just come and trade things to him. Can you rep/res/cst this? And I can, though my rep skill is rather low atm. I don't know what inspires such trust, considering the kind of server Saturn is...
How about having a thread on the forums, RPG forums, where you build a rep.
Each time you receive a deed off someone point it out.
Trust is part of the game. If someone screws you over, don't deal with them again and put out a bounty on their tags.Common knowledge. But this does not stop the bastard from scamming you in the first place.
If you can't find a trustworthy tradeskiller, make one yourself...Why should I have to? This game is a MMORPG. Notice the second letter, the M. That stands for Multiplayer. If I want a single player RPG where I can do everything myself, I'll go play Morrowind, thank you very much.
You can have that the moment you agree to give me access to your CON/DEX/STR setups over your head or in Citycom.Fine by me. I don't care one way or the other, I just want something to be able to double check the skill of the person. Maybe even make it so you have to hack your way into the info once HackNet comes around.
This is the way the game works. If you want to change it, create trustworthy tradeskill characters yourself. If you think it's too much time and effort, tough. I created mine. I see no reason why others shouldn't do the same.So you created your own tradeskill characters. Big whoop-dee-do. See my point above about this being a MMORPG, and not Morrowind.
--Stryfe
Why should I have to? Because you're the one whining about the lack of those sorts of characters? If you're not willing to step up, why should anyone else step up? If you aren't willing to do it yourself, you can't rightly complain about the lack of others to do your work for you.This game is a MMORPG. Notice the second letter, the M. That stands for Multiplayer.You can't have it both ways. First you say there's a lack of tradeskillers, then you state this is an MMO. Either you lack the social skills to find and feel out tradeskillers, or you lack the conviction to step up and create one to fill in a perceived void.
With respect to social skills, I'll give you a hint - I don't do work for people who swear on Trade-NC in attempts to get tradeskillers, i.e. "Where are all the fucking researchers!?"
So you created your own tradeskill characters.I created only one originally, my main. I knew from day one that very few would want to tradeskill. I happen to like getting my name on weapons, so built a researcher/constructor. My implanting PE was a far later creation and not particularly needed. I've considered getting rid of his imping, but I like the idea of buffing myself. :-)
Because you're the one whining about the lack of those sorts of characters? If you're not willing to step up, why should anyone else step up? If you aren't willing to do it yourself, you can't rightly complain about the lack of others to do your work for you.Please note that I didn't say that I don't actually have my own tradeskillers. I do. My question is why should I have to create them myself. In a fully fleshed out MMO with good balance, one person does not need to have all of the needed types of tradeskillers. This is one of the major things that NC is lacking in.
You can't have it both ways. First you say there's a lack of tradeskillers, then you state this is an MMO. Either you lack the social skills to find and feel out tradeskillers, or you lack the conviction to step up and create one to fill in a perceived void.
With respect to social skills, I'll give you a hint - I don't do work for people who swear on Trade-NC in attempts to get tradeskillers, i.e. "Where are all the fucking researchers!?"There's no real "social skills" involved in finding a tradeskiller other than asking, "Can you XXX?" and being polite and using some common sense.
I created only one originally, my main. I knew from day one that very few would want to tradeskill. I happen to like getting my name on weapons, so built a researcher/constructor. My implanting PE was a far later creation and not particularly needed. I've considered getting rid of his imping, but I like the idea of buffing myself. :-)Don't get rid of IMP... it's invaluable. Although it usually works better with Spy setups than PE setups.
--Stryfe
In a fully fleshed out MMO with good balance, one person does not need to have all of the needed types of tradeskillers.You're looking for a fully fleshed out MMO and you're playing NC? How much kool-aid did you drink?
Regardless, NC has lower player counts, especially on Pluto. For now, to tradeskill means we all have to step up.There's no real "social skills" involved in finding a tradeskiller other than asking, "Can you XXX?" and being polite and using some common sense.That's what you do if you don't care about reputation. If you care about reputation, you listen to Trade-NC and see what tradeskillers say. You use the same person a few times on ever-increasing jobs (quantity or skill). You mail them in CityComm asking them to do work and arrange to meet them to do the work. Most of this applies to the trusting tradeskills (rsch/cst/rep/barter), but some still applies to imping - you don't go to just any imper if you see one you've used before. There is a social aspect to tradeskilling that should not be neglected.Don't get rid of IMP... it's invaluable.I'm LEed. My imps only pop if I'm stupid or leveling and get trapped.
Gotterdammerung
19-07-04, 04:55
My suggestion is to be part of a full service clan with it's own cadre of tradeskillers. I know it isn't glamourous but someone had to be the researcher/constructor/repairers/implanters of the world. It's also so much easier on a 4 character server. If you wanna be a good & proactive member of a clan then don't bring them just your "OMG-MC5 Imped-Buffed-to-the-max-I-only-PvP-&-will-pwnz0r-j00" character, develop a secondary character that has at least 1 vital skill thats important to the clan as a whole & to all it's members.
This way if you need something repaired/constructed/researched you don't have to give it to a stranger and if no one is on at the moment you know it's just a matter of waiting a while.
There is no prob on pluto I can trust almost anyone to trade skill for me.
People like this should be in the game - but they should also expect punishment for their actions. Safezones let them hide, and that's possibly the biggest reason I want to see safezones gone.
People like this should be in the game - but they should also expect punishment for their actions. Safezones let them hide, and that's possibly the biggest reason I want to see safezones gone.Safezones are a moot point if the scammer never takes his or her LE out. And seeing that I am a fan of the LE, I don't think that taking it out or forcing it to pop out after a certain rank is a good idea, either, if someone was going to suggest that. Unfortunately, I have no solution to the problem at this time.
--Stryfe
Tuff shit
u win some u lose some. LOM to rep get a new char come to swg or live with it
The thing about clans getting robbed blind is a matter of poor recruiting too...
I've been a memeber of 3 clans (including the one mentioned in this post, which I am still currently... I think... haven't logged that char in a while.)
The only one that had no major issue with this was the one that required an interview to get it, they also required some 'clan service' for advancement. I had to do hours making parts to earn my rank and MC-5 chip, but it ensured that I deserved it.
One clan I joined... they sent out an open invitation on 'faction' chat: "anyone want to join a clan?" anyone who DMed the guy was given an invite, no real other questions asked.
The one mentioned here did a bit more asking, but they still didn't know me at all really. If (when) I finally get off my ass, finish my epic and make my clan, we're going to have a not arduous but not insignificant trial period where you are expected to actually help out the clan and do not have main apt access (but are given gear by other members) and I'm bringing my tradeskill ring (A cons/res pure tradeskill... barterer, poker, ect.) and requiring supporting your clan as a condition of membership (if you want rares and MC-chips, you make yourself useful)
Whitestuff
19-07-04, 06:43
It was an official post somewhere that stealing in game is perfectly legal and actually part of the game. If some repairer steals your stuff, KUDOS to you for trusting someone with your 4 slot CS, or the like... geez. And stealing all the clan rares. . . letting someone have control of your parts is a big no-no, unless of course they are me and are actually honest (hey, I got my clan's key's back from a situation like that). In short, its part of the game ffs. Live with it, build bonds that people won't want to fuck and you'll do well.
JackScratch
19-07-04, 06:58
I have run a very successful Trade skill clan on Uranus, comprised solely of me, my 4 alts. Make friends, get to knopw people, make your own trade skillers, learn who to trust. The problem you have had is unfortunate, but avoidable. Im probably the most loved, and most hated person on Uranus.
The problem is, what happens AFTER someone gets robbed... there is no actual punishment system in nc. In our societies there is the public paid police force and courthouses. here there is nothing. KK should implement some sort of punishment for those that actually do steal on purpose. There is also lack of a prewarning system, maybe some sort of evaluation system while on trade window, something like the soulight system that will verify that the other is a trustoworthy person...
KK should implement some sort of punishment for those that actually do steal on purpose. There is no reason KK should become involved in in-game theft. Account hacking is the only area KK should get involved in. Tradeskill theft/tech part swaping is part of the game. Work it out amongst yourselves.There is also lack of a prewarning system, maybe some sort of evaluation system while on trade window, something like the soulight system that will verify that the other is a trustoworthy person...So if someone decides to delete and recreate a bunch of characters to lower a legit trader's reputation, that's ok? Yeah, right...
Any reputation system will be abused. If you think tradeskillers are hard to find now, wait until you start trying to hang signs on us.
There is no reason KK should become involved in in-game theft. Account hacking is the only area KK should get involved in. Tradeskill theft/tech part swaping is part of the game. Work it out amongst yourselves.So if someone decides to delete and recreate a bunch of characters to lower a legit trader's reputation, that's ok? Yeah, right...
Any reputation system will be abused. If you think tradeskillers are hard to find now, wait until you start trying to hang signs on us.No, he's right. There needs to be some sort of recourse against the scammer. On a four character server like Saturn, it's far too easy to simply keep a spare character slot and just create some new character, powerlevel them abit to make it appear that they can tradeskill, then scam someone, delete the character, repeat ad nauseaum (sp?).
Part of that is player trust issues, but it's also abusing the game mechanics, too.
--Stryfe
People like that end up hacing all their alts kos to half the server.
They keep doing it, they might as well quit or rerol all their characters.
No, he's right. There needs to be some sort of recourse against the scammer.There already is: make he/she KoS and put a bounty on his/her head. There's also the alt option, especially when you say:On a four character server like Saturn,On a four char server, one should make their own tradeskill character if one gets burned too often. Simple solution. The problem is taken care of, and the person might even get good tradeskill business because of it.it's far too easy to simply keep a spare character slot and just create some new character, powerlevel them abit to make it appear that they can tradeskill, then scam someone, delete the character, repeat ad nauseaum (sp?).Why would one use a "new" face on Saturn for any tradeskill work? Why wouldn't one use someone who had been around a while?
Your argument, "there are too many scammers" breaks down when people don''t decide to become directly involved and at least try to rectify the situation with their owl alts, especially on Saturn. People keep going back to KK and saying, "waaah!", instead of working on solving the problem. You can argue M in MMO all you want but the reality is that Neocron is short on people right now. Either use an alt to work around that issue, take a chance, or wait for BDOY.
Part of the problem is the utter lack of patience people have. People want tradeskills done RIGHT NOW. They don't want to wait for a known quantity. They don't want to track people down to do their work. So what if you have to log in a couple days later to get something done? Are you in that much of a hurry that you can't wait and stick with a known quantity?
The only possible work-around I see may be an automated escrow system (which I detailed in a previous thread) which requires no KK intervention and functions similar to NF, but how feasable that is would be something for KK to answer. It may also not work around rarepart IDing.
The problem is, what happens AFTER someone gets robbed... there is no actual punishment system in nc.
Sure there is. You have the persons name, and probably who they deal with. You get them killed, you refuse to deal with them again and you learn from your mistakes.
You wouldn't drive up to anyone on the street and give them your car keys and tell them to fix/clean the car? Why should it be different in NC?
Same applies for clans.
juvestar15
19-07-04, 09:07
I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but SWG does it nicely.
They are able to track pretty much everything, so all trades and chats are logged. There was one guy who had all his armor stolen. He put in a ticket and got it back the next day.
On the subject of logging. They released economy stats one time. It showed money in and money out. The graphs showed where the money came from and went. I can't remember hte exact numbers but it was something like 1.5 billion came into the game and 2.7 billion went out. :lol:
Obviously a credit dupe. :D
Sure there is. You have the persons name, and probably who they deal with. You get them killed, you refuse to deal with them again and you learn from your mistakes.
You wouldn't drive up to anyone on the street and give them your car keys and tell them to fix/clean the car? Why should it be different in NC?
Same applies for clans.and what if he has an LE in. Can't be killed. Oh his reputation ruined. Lol nice one, on a one slot server this is true. but on a 4 slot server there will be more than enough char alts to keep running your scam. the main problem here is that it is quiet hard to ruin the reputation of someone on a 4 slot server. Just pass all you stuff to an alt an reroll. This can go on and on and ................
I'm beggining to sound like a broken record, but SWG does it nicely.
They are able to track pretty much everything, so all trades and chats are logged. There was one guy who had all his armor stolen. He put in a ticket and got it back the next day.That aint a solution neither. It is and should be possible to scam people. but their have to be consequence to it.
juvestar15
19-07-04, 09:12
and what if he has an LE in. Can't be killed. Oh his reputation ruined. Lol nice one, on a one slot server this is true. but on a 4 slot server there will be more than enough char alts to keep running your scam. the main problem here is that it is quiet hard to ruin the reputation of someone on a 4 slot server. Just pass all you stuff to an alt an reroll. This can go on and on and ................
That happened on Uranus. This one fool did it with three chars. I left around the time so I'm sure he has done it many times more. He is part of the crew that have been screwing up the player events on Pluto and Uranus. :rolleyes:
That aint a solution neither. It is and should be possible to scam people. but their have to be consequence to it.
No that is what KK have you believe. It's basically the short version of "We cbf working out a system to stop it". Who creates a game with a feature intended on pissing off their customer base? :wtf:
and what if he has an LE in.If you use John Doe LE on a 4 char server for tradeskills without checking him/her out, you deserve what you get...Can't be killed. Oh his reputation ruined. Lol nice one, on a one slot server this is true. but on a 4 slot server there will be more than enough char alts to keep running your scam.On a four-slot server, you shouldn't be using tradeskillers you don't know.the main problem here is that it is quiet hard to ruin the reputation of someone on a 4 slot server.So don't use new players for valuable jobs. Use them for lower end jobs and see what happens.
Freaky Fryd
19-07-04, 09:22
Or just make it possible to have stuff repaired without having to hand it over.
Tradeskiller puts their repair tool in the tradewindow, player puts their item in the tradewindow, both people click on the "work" button beside the "OK" button, and the work is done without having to give up possession of the item.
and what if he has an LE in. Can't be killed. Oh his reputation ruined. Lol nice one, on a one slot server this is true. but on a 4 slot server there will be more than enough char alts to keep running your scam.
How many? 2? 3? How many items do you think a person can steal before no one deals with him. On a 4 slot server you could create your own trades person and never have to worry about getting stolen from.
He has an LE and you think it is a problem? Then fine don't do business with the person. Find a trades clan that people will vouch for, or wait until someone you know who is decent to do the trades comes on.
you know a bit of common sense.
the main problem here is that it is quiet hard to ruin the reputation of someone on a 4 slot server. Just pass all you stuff to an alt an reroll. This can go on and on and ................
Reroll? So they make a new character, which they have to level up so as not to make it look like a scam. Then they have to build a reputation for trades because all those people who got scammed before aren't going to be very forthcoming again?
Meanwhile, you can just create a trader character on your Alt or deal with a trader clan/a known clan to help you.
There should be some kind of rating for the trade skiller like ebay has.. the positive/negative feedback.. i dunno just throwing out ideas
There is no prob on pluto I can trust almost anyone to trade skill for me.
even i will help him even though he is a scummy Black Dragon ;) I'll help anyone when i am as my trader, just because i would rather see people out there fighting and enjoying the game instead of sitting in Plaza shouting for pokes or reps.
I've never heard of someone stealing on pluto, maybe its because it is a one char server and traders need to have their reputation intact to keep business going.
personally i rarely use tradeskillers outside my own clan.
and even then i would check how trustworthy they are.
ive only even gave my weapon over to a enemy to rep for my and in that case it was Dont Mess who i felt i could trust.
dont hand anything over to someone who you even remotly think is untrustworthy.
Safezones are a moot point if the scammer never takes his or her LE out. And seeing that I am a fan of the LE, I don't think that taking it out or forcing it to pop out after a certain rank is a good idea, either, if someone was going to suggest that. Unfortunately, I have no solution to the problem at this time.
--Stryfe
I do. I simply never deal in tradeskills with anyone who has an LE chip in.
Add another cash sink
Insurance :D
Make some kinda vendor you goto and ask for insurance, say he does techs for 10k per tech, built rares say like 500k for it then like 100k per slot and etc etc with all the other items ingame.
Make it so the stuff your most likely to insure (vhcs, life, rares, vhcs) cost the most and when you purchase say you recieve some kinda data cube saying what you insured.
Then you get it nicked your insurance firm provides a replacement and you are forced to retake insurance if you have to.... of course it's open to a lot of exploits but if it was well thought out i think it would kill a few birds with one stone.....
Vampire222
19-07-04, 14:02
I have run a very successful Trade skill clan on Uranus, comprised solely of me, my 4 alts. Make friends, get to knopw people, make your own trade skillers, learn who to trust. The problem you have had is unfortunate, but avoidable. Im probably the most loved, and most hated person on Uranus.
i for one hate and love jack :D anyway, its really crappy when your weapons or other items get stolen by someone posing as a tradeskiller, but unfortunately theres nothing you can do to get it back... the best thing to do imo is to just live with it and learn from it by only giving valuable stuff out to people you know and trust... like jack, if you play on uranus
No that is what KK have you believe. It's basically the short version of "We cbf working out a system to stop it". Who creates a game with a feature intended on pissing off their customer base? :wtf:
I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but SWG does it nicely.
They are able to track pretty much everything, so all trades and chats are logged. There was one guy who had all his armor stolen. He put in a ticket and got it back the next day.
If you GIVE an item to someone for whatever reason, on your own head be it. If you don't KNOW the guy, don't give him the item!! Ask around, get 2nd opinions etc if the item is that important.
A guy had all his armour stolen? How? Did he give it to someone for whatever reason? Oh dear. His fault. What the fuck are the GM's doing getting involved? It's nothing to do with them! SWG sounds even more pathetic by the day. What happens if you kill someone and take all their stuff? Do you get banned? :lol: Go play Ultima Online pre insurance BS, you drop the lot when you die.
@LTA Insurance is a fucking shitty idea. It practically ruined UO as a decent PvP game. You have a safeslot in NC AND you only lose one item anyway (assuming your SL is ok). Being able to insure your items so they didn't drop at all is fucking stupid. If you defeat someone in combat you should be able to take your pick of the spoils! And if insurance MUST be in, then make it so all you get is a percentage of the value of the item in cash. Not a full replacement.
:)
I think part of the problem right now is the lack of tradeskillers which is caused by the screwed up experience system. Desperation to find a skilled trades person combined with player greed will always end badly.
Although I have a skilled character I very rarely bring her out because at the level I’m currently at a level (which isn’t even that high relatively speaking, my fault for going pure tradeskill I guess) I’m going to have research/construct/repair such a huge amount of useless items that I can’t even sell or make money from (although this sounds like it has been dealt in DoY) it seems like it will take forever for my next level. In fact the amount of money I would have to spend just to finish these items is just silly. Under these conditions why would anyone want to make a tradeskiller unless it was to service their own needs?
While every other character type can make money while leveling, pure tradeskillers have to spend money. While all others classes earn experience even if they die, tradeskillers lose experience if they fail to research or build an item. What ever happen to the idea of learn from your mistakes?
Combine this with the fact that other non-tradeskill characters have such tight purse stings its not even funny. Giving some poor tradeskiller 2k for repairing your rare items and weapons, broken MC5 chips or PA is just a slap in the face.
I do a agree strongly with the previous posts about having some sort of reputation system for tradeskillers as long as it could be implemented in such a way that it couldn’t be used as a weapon against the tradeskiller. Nothing would suck more than having a bunch of BDs ruin the reputation of a sweet and kind FA such as myself.
Ghanima :angel:
Ok, you can make money by being a tradeskiller.
Just go for this:
A constructor / recycler that drives a rhino, and hacks 55.
Perfect for teming up with a gentank to hunt rares. And you get some xp from hacking and repairing the rhino, not much but still.
Sell the rares and you can use the weapon and vehicleparts to build things.
A researcher/repairer that drives a rhino and hacks 55, do the same thing, bonus is when you're high enough you come home with researched parts (for which you get lots of xp)
Also researching and building drones and selling them to players makes you get back cash. Not a lot of people wanna do that since it's boring.
Birdman[H.E.]
19-07-04, 14:48
There should be a way to deal with this things in the game if the safe zones are still set up.
If a guy do something to you in RL you can somehow deal with him if you ever fin him.
In this game your ex clan leader takes all your Rare POOL and you cant do nothing about it, its not about trusting a tradeskiller only, its about betrayal and worst things.
Also ppl who join a clan to empty their shinny clan app cabs to go another clan later to do the same.
Yeah KOS the ppl, well he can have alts, play with em and you never will know about that.
So there is no freacking thing you can do ingame, KK cant give you any response, and only you can do is go get your stuff back somehow.
The player i named before, not only left his clan with cash and rares, but also stealed things from others as a repairer, now he even tell me im crap becouse i talk bad things about him.
This guy can go to plaza stand next to me and laugh at my face, and i can only kill him once or 2 to get a PA with lucky, well he got over 2000 rare parts now, so he dont care..
kill him everywhere he goes, make sure you friends or whatever do the same, all those 2000 techs wont mean much if hes getting killed everytime he steps outside of a safe zone
Birdman[H.E.]
19-07-04, 15:20
Lets be real my stealther spy can go to MB and put a fight against other 5-12 ppl and still be able to live and even with luck kill somebody.
This ppl main char is a rifle spy, so i figured is pointless to ever try to do that
Well, the thing is, people who play alone, get bored real quick, and since the servercounts are not that high, a reputation tends to follow you around real fast.
juvestar15
19-07-04, 15:43
If you GIVE an item to someone for whatever reason, on your own head be it. If you don't KNOW the guy, don't give him the item!! Ask around, get 2nd opinions etc if the item is that important.
A guy had all his armour stolen? How? Did he give it to someone for whatever reason? Oh dear. His fault. What the fuck are the GM's doing getting involved? It's nothing to do with them! SWG sounds even more pathetic by the day. What happens if you kill someone and take all their stuff? Do you get banned? :lol: Go play Ultima Online pre insurance BS, you drop the lot when you die.
That goes beyond the game's scope. They try and make games as realistic as possible. This should be mirrored in tradeskills. I always hear the excuse "there are scammers in real life so there should be in Neocron". I agree with that, but the way it is now is not the solution. In real life, when you hand your keys to a mechanic, he is usually in a garage. Now if you want to buy illegal playstation games you meet with a dodgy looking thug in a backstreet. See the differences? If you want scammers in Neocron, come up with a feature that makes it visually possibe to distinguish one.
The problem is population. I'd take the risk rather than wait a day or two for the right player to come on. It's pathetic. :rolleyes:
Also, how do you describe bugs that make your items disappear? Lets not call them bugs, lets call that "misplacing" or "theft". Or what abour FREs, we wont call that a bug either. We'll call it "getting jumped". :rolleyes:
@LTA Insurance is a fucking shitty idea. It practically ruined UO as a decent PvP game. You have a safeslot in NC AND you only lose one item anyway (assuming your SL is ok). Being able to insure your items so they didn't drop at all is fucking stupid. If you defeat someone in combat you should be able to take your pick of the spoils! And if insurance MUST be in, then make it so all you get is a percentage of the value of the item in cash. Not a full replacement.
:)
Ahh but it depends how you insure something
Theft
Combat
Damage
You don't have to allow insurance for combat based drops the system can be edited to assure that or in a disclaimer "We don't insure runners against combat related incidents, if you can't defend yourself we can't help blah de blah"
That or make it extremely expensive to insure againt pvp loss
I recall an incident many months back..
A player had given an item to a guy to get repaired. The person who took the item said "F' You!" and legged it. He tried to ask his clan to get the item back but it turned out that the guy was the clan leader.
So he went to all the levelling spots and slaughtered all of the guys clan. In some instances he even direct messaged them and asked them were they were (and they answered). After this, he paid to have the guys apartments/clan apartment found.
The guys primary apartment was found, and when he went up there he was surprised to find 4 people up there waiting for their leader. He slaughtered the lot of them, and continued to slaughter them when they came back.
It got to a point where they were whining that an evil PK'er had taken over the apartment. Higher level players showed up, asked what happened. When they found out they left him alone.
I don't know if he got his item back, but the people in the guys clan all quit his clan. He was pretty pissed off over that.
All that happened over a space of a day. AFAIR the item was pretty useless (think it was INQ4 pants or something).
juvestar15
19-07-04, 15:46
Isn't that griefing? :confused:
Isn't that griefing? :confused:
No its called retribution. A clan defines yours rules. If you want to be a dickhead then you mark everyone in your clan as a dickhead. That is why it is up to the heads of the clans to act as the police.
As for apartment killing (I was there at the time). He had killed them in the entrance way. As downstairs was VR3 they could of just run for it.
Yeah, that's the way to do it.
People with time on their hands can be a real pain in the ass to others, especialy if they have the resources and a capped char.
Birdman[H.E.]
19-07-04, 15:54
This only can be archived if the guy who stole things is in clan or leader of one, but if hes unclanned man, well nothing you can do about it..
juvestar15
19-07-04, 15:58
Hey Birdman it's "achieved" not "archived".
Just thought I'd correct you, no offense intended. :)
theres a guy who stole a Termi few weeks back(when they were really rare) from someone who thought of that guy as a friend and sold it for RL cash. Don't think anything by KK was done about it.. But since we don't like the clan he's in we kossed their whole clan and now hes calling us gay and losers. oh And that we should stop whining or bitch to KK about it to get him banned.
Oh well it's life I guess. We're having fun, he's always bitching.. what more do you want?
//edit:
oh lol Just read the last reply from him on rec. forums.. Now he's blaming KK for that because the game gets boring too quickly :lol:
DM me the name, i haven't got much to do at the moment :-)
What I dont get is that all over plaza there are copbots who kill anybody who breaks the law and even in a gritty post apocalypic world like neocron thieving would be a fucking crime or all the pro-city factions and all the shops wouldnt make money yet people are able to steal standing beside copbots who should kill them for their crime and KK go its part of the game.
If people stole without a law enforcer in or in a non-copbot patrolled area I would go fair enough but they dont they only do it in plaza and when only clubs and faction HQs becaome the only safezones they will do it there too.
Its not the stealing that gets me is the using the game mechanics in a way they arent meant to be used in for their own advantage and KK say its part of the game because its the easiest thing for them to do.
Clan apartments shouldnt be used for storing good shit or you shouldnt allow many people have access to it or both, that way nothing gets stolen from them.Anyone you give clan ap access to should be trusted implicitly not to nick anything.
Dirk_Gently
19-07-04, 16:39
KK are not going to intervene as they have already made it perfectly clear that stealing is part of the game.
This is kind of one of the threads that needs to be ingame. I don't use tradeskillers I don't trust ever. I use people in my clan. If you don't have tradeskillers in your clan then I suggest you delete your 3 person clan (a pet hate of mine) and join a larger one with decent resources. It will make the game better all round.
The intro in-game mail talks about finding the security of a clan, that's what clans are for.
Dirk_Gently
19-07-04, 16:43
theres a guy who stole a Termi few weeks back(when they were really rare) from someone who thought of that guy as a friend and sold it for RL cash.
All MMORPGs should stop people selling in-game items. I absolutely hate that aspect of these games. A simple note on the T&C "All items within the game remain the property of [company] and may not be traded out of game, subscriptions cover access to server only" would sort it.
It would make every mmorpg now, in the past, or in the future infinitely better. People earning their livings doing that b/s have screwed UO and EQ.
Edit: Sorry for posting twice in a row, this is just something that bloody annoys me.
I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but SWG does it nicely. They are able to track pretty much everything, so all trades and chats are logged. There was one guy who had all his armor stolen. He put in a ticket and got it back the next day.
I'm going to create a new char. He's going to be a hardworking thief. Thats his role in NC, to steal off others. He'll be called Honest Joe.
I don't have a prob., with that. Adds to the role-play. If you let someone steal off you then thats between you and him and anyone else who takes up your bounty offer.
This is the way of the game. The game is full of murders, psychopaths and some nice tradeskillers. I dislike the SWG system detailed above. It makes loosing items pointless. How can my yet to be made char., steal all your rares if after the scam the items are given back!? ;)
never had this problem my self because i only ever have people i trust do stuff for me. fang once had its clan appt and rares appts (about 5 of them) cleaned out by someone who left us but to us it was just 2 days hunting and we had them all back so no big loss.
they way we look at nc everything is replacable so why worry about loosing something?
tomparadox
19-07-04, 17:18
@all the people saying tough shit make your own...- no, why should we? its an MMO, i agree with Stryfex we shouldent half to make our own damn tradskillers because all the bastards that steel your rares that you spent the time and effort to get.
Theft is geting worse and worse, They start a char, steel as much as they can from people, then the bastard makes another char, with a diferent name, lays low not steeling untill hes a higher lvl then starts up again. This is geting out of controll fix it.
@ all the people saying its fine - so, do you like haveing your stuff stollen? perhaps every tradeskiller should start steeling your shit every time to ask to have something repped. Or maby your the people doing the steeling? and you dont whant to get punished for it? hmm...
The problem is that if someone steals from you in real life you have a choice to go take him or leave him be. The way I see tradeskilling in NC is like this. I go up to the person and I give him my weapon. He never leaves my sight while he is repairing or whatever. He is well within my reach and one thing that should prevent the tradeskiller from stealing from is the fact that I can kick his ass. There is no "skill" in stealing from someone in NC. You dont have to worry about someone seeing you, your rep will take a hit, but then again on a 4 slot server.....You can just stand around and taunt your victim and never be afraid of the consequenses.
For 2000 rares I wouldn`t mind being kos'ed 3-4 times a day. I seriously doubt I would be ganked that much if I did something like this. Death is no threat.
One possible answer: "DNA activated weapons". You have a safety device on all weapons. Pretty much like judge dredds pistol. If the weapon doesnt recognize the users dna it wont fire. This would of course be marked with a sign in the inventory modell of the weapon. You could perhaps register it in the sameway you do with your appartment, password or something like that. It wouldn`t prevent someone from stealing, but it would prevent someone from enjoying the weapons they stole.
juvestar15
19-07-04, 17:38
Yep that is a good idea. If you want to sell the gun, you can then reset the dna. It can only be reset by the person whose name is on it.
tomparadox
19-07-04, 18:13
yea, the DNA thing is a good idea, but it bashes belt drops, IE if someone drops a mal, the person who hacks the belt cant use it - therefor it becomes useless...
Maby make it so that when it drops in your belt the DNA is reset so anyone who finds it can activate it?
Hmm didnt think of that tomparadox. Oh well..........
well if they do steal it then...i suppose you have the CHOICE to let them cst/res/rep it . basically the only way to make sure no one steals anything of urs is to make ur own char[s] that tradeskill . the only person in life you can honestly trust is yourself
tomparadox
19-07-04, 18:17
Hmm didnt think of that tomparadox. Oh well..........
Yes, but my addon could safly work around it ^^.
Because that way the only way to steal someones gun, is to kill them and hope its in there belt.
well if they do steal it then...i suppose you have the CHOICE to let them cst/res/rep it . basically the only way to make sure no one steals anything of urs is to make ur own char[s] that tradeskill . the only person in life you can honestly trust is yourself while that is true, it shouldent be like that.
What about pluto? 1 char server, you cant make a tradeskiller & a combat char unless you have 2 accounds, but it also makes thefs have a harder time, but they can still reroll to a new name.
It used to be ok, it wasent that offen that youd get your stuff stollen from a trade skiller, but now its goten a lot worse. the last couple times i was on uranus, people were spaming that this dude was a thef. Next day his char was deleted. Day after that people were spaming about a diferent dude steeling shit.
4 char servers make it way to easy to steel shit. You cnat realy make your own trade skill char, because XP is screwed up, or atlest last i knew it was.
Dirk_Gently
19-07-04, 18:53
Then only use tradeskillers you know.
As in real-life you don't trust strangers. You have to be a special kind of idiot to give a 5 slot CS to someone you don't know.
steweygrrr
19-07-04, 18:55
Not this again...
And someones gone and moved the community announcements sticky so I can't give my usual answer. So I'll have to remember it...
ah...
here we go.
Right, this is an MMORPG right? With the RP standing for Roleplaying, correct? Now if this is a roleplaying game, whats to say someone can't roleplay a lying, cheating, thieving vermin? Both you and I know there cannot be a world full of completely altruistic, trusting, never do anything wrong never step out of line people. So unfortunately the rule of Buyer Beware applies. If you get burned, yes it's a shame but unfortunately thats the way of things. As long as there are trusting people there will be people waiting to take advantage.
Dirk_Gently
19-07-04, 19:07
Not this again...
And someones gone and moved the community announcements sticky so I can't give my usual answer. So I'll have to remember it...
ah...
here we go.
Right, this is an MMORPG right? With the RP standing for Roleplaying, correct? Now if this is a roleplaying game, whats to say someone can't roleplay a lying, cheating, thieving vermin? Both you and I know there cannot be a world full of completely altruistic, trusting, never do anything wrong never step out of line people. So unfortunately the rule of Buyer Beware applies. If you get burned, yes it's a shame but unfortunately thats the way of things. As long as there are trusting people there will be people waiting to take advantage.
I think the objection was that you could delete said character once he is known and roll another one which is not rp.
tomparadox
19-07-04, 19:21
Not this again...
And someones gone and moved the community announcements sticky so I can't give my usual answer. So I'll have to remember it...
ah...
here we go.
Right, this is an MMORPG right? With the RP standing for Roleplaying, correct? Now if this is a roleplaying game, whats to say someone can't roleplay a lying, cheating, thieving vermin? Both you and I know there cannot be a world full of completely altruistic, trusting, never do anything wrong never step out of line people. So unfortunately the rule of Buyer Beware applies. If you get burned, yes it's a shame but unfortunately thats the way of things. As long as there are trusting people there will be people waiting to take advantage. hmm, RP wise, you should get punished.
You chose to play the role of a thef. Therefor you should half to suffer the consequences of your actions as a thef.
If this will be considered "role playing" make it so there are consequences.
If you look at it in RL, you steel, youll most likly get cought.
In NC, you steel, nuthing happens. You delet the char when your well known as a thef and make a new char. Then do it agian. No consequences at all. That is whats wrong with it.
I dont mind geting robed by a thef, what ticks me and probly most of the other people off is that the basterd has no consequences for his actions to go along with him "role playing".
Right, this is an MMORPG right? With the RP standing for Roleplaying, correct? Now if this is a roleplaying game, whats to say someone can't roleplay a lying, cheating, thieving vermin? Both you and I know there cannot be a world full of completely altruistic, trusting, never do anything wrong never step out of line people. So unfortunately the rule of Buyer Beware applies. If you get burned, yes it's a shame but unfortunately thats the way of things. As long as there are trusting people there will be people waiting to take advantage.
Nobody's saying they can't. The problem is, people who do it don't roleplay it. How can you stand in front of a CopBot, steal someone's gun, and then give a load of verbal abuse on top for the hell of it, and then say it's RP? If it was really happening there, the CopBot would toast that guy's ass and give the gun back to the original owner, as well as fining the company he belonged to for allowing someone like that to work for them, etc.
If you're operating some dodgy back street research service and you steal a bunch of techs, then hell yes that's RP, you're not a trustworthy character and you just stole stuff. If you're a Black Dragon standing in a safezone that you never leave in front of a CopBot, or wearing an LE, and you steal someone's weapon when they try to get it repaired, followed by hurling abuse at them, then it's not RP.
Until the game properly supports stealing like this, where the perpetrators can be punished, through bounties, no protection from safezones, or a working SL system and loss of SL for this kind of action, then stealing items shouldn't be possible. It's not hard to fix either. Just ban the carrying of all rare weapons or tech parts in front of CopBots, and anywhere in safezones. While you're at it, include drugs in that too. Now people HAVE to do their tradeskills in places where they face punishment for their crimes.
Theft is geting worse and worse, They start a char, steel as much as they can from people, then the bastard makes another char, with a diferent name, lays low not steeling untill hes a higher lvl then starts up again.
And how long does it take him to level? How long does it take to build the rep as a trader to steal what? a handful of items. How many times do you think you can keep ripping the same people off?
Since the start of retail I have been ripped off twice. Both occasions it was my stupidity and impatience to wait for someone more trustworthy. One of those occasions I Was able to get the item back by talking to their clan. The other one I never saw again.
I grow from the experience and move on. If your continually getting robbed then there is something seriously wrong with you. If you see others getting ripped off then your not protecting them.
We had on pluto a certain well known character claiming they could RES so they could rip off peoples parts. He got one person. After that everyone warned on TRADE-NC.
steweygrrr
19-07-04, 19:55
Nobody's saying they can't. The problem is, people who do it don't roleplay it. How can you stand in front of a CopBot, steal someone's gun, and then give a load of verbal abuse on top for the hell of it, and then say it's RP? If it was really happening there, the CopBot would toast that guy's ass and give the gun back to the original owner, as well as fining the company he belonged to for allowing someone like that to work for them, etc.
If you're operating some dodgy back street research service and you steal a bunch of techs, then hell yes that's RP, you're not a trustworthy character and you just stole stuff. If you're a Black Dragon standing in a safezone that you never leave in front of a CopBot, or wearing an LE, and you steal someone's weapon when they try to get it repaired, followed by hurling abuse at them, then it's not RP.
Until the game properly supports stealing like this, where the perpetrators can be punished, through bounties, no protection from safezones, or a working SL system and loss of SL for this kind of action, then stealing items shouldn't be possible. It's not hard to fix either. Just ban the carrying of all rare weapons or tech parts in front of CopBots, and anywhere in safezones. While you're at it, include drugs in that too. Now people HAVE to do their tradeskills in places where they face punishment for their crimes.
Well you can easily punish them for their crimes. Kill them yourself, place a bounty on them, never trade with them again etc. Sure it won't get you your stuff back but you'll feel better for it.
Re LE abuse. Yes I agree that needs to be stopped but with very few valid reasons in the current ingame political climate (at least on Uranus anyway) to remove the LE, there will always be people who abuse it. There is a way around that though. Make an LE'd char yourself. Kill the guy whenever he leaves a safezone...he's gotta do it sometime.
The game will never properly support stealing without some kind of pickpocketing system. Now theres a line of work for the Spy and PE class....
ah . but . like i said in my earliar reply . you have to CHOICE . just like you have the CHOICE to use saturn . or uranus . or any of the 4 char servers . so you can make a Ress/Cst+repper/Barterer and still make a fighter char . Myself i just have fighter chrs but i use a RL friend i have known for about 5 years .
"The game will never properly support stealing without some kind of pickpocketing system. Now theres a line of work for the Spy and PE class"
now i see your ideas for that . and it would make nc a very interesting place to be with like you had a special tool that let you have the ability to pickpocket . but the person being pickpocketed would be able to tell sumhow .
and agian . people would abuse it etc etc etc blah blah etc . there isnt realy much in the game that you can do that "is the right thing to do" (i bet 6 people will quote me and use thta agianst me) *laughs*
Birdman[H.E.]
19-07-04, 20:35
If KK support the idea of players stealing stuff from others or at least dont do nothing about it, then they should give the players more tools to track, and be able to take revenge on their robbers.
As there are no tools like HeadHunting online system, or tradeskiller ranking system, or whatever you think about.
Then KK should take this actions as abuse, as this is far out of game ATM, becouse the game cant handle this matters, and the players have nothing they can do about em neither.
tomparadox
19-07-04, 21:08
And how long does it take him to level? How long does it take to build the rep as a trader to steal what? a handful of items. How many times do you think you can keep ripping the same people off?
Since the start of retail I have been ripped off twice. Both occasions it was my stupidity and impatience to wait for someone more trustworthy. One of those occasions I Was able to get the item back by talking to their clan. The other one I never saw again.
I grow from the experience and move on. If your continually getting robbed then there is something seriously wrong with you. If you see others getting ripped off then your not protecting them.
We had on pluto a certain well known character claiming they could RES so they could rip off peoples parts. He got one person. After that everyone warned on TRADE-NC. OK, dude your not geting my point, im not saying they CANT, or should not be able to rob you, im trying to say MAKE SOME DAMN WAY TO GET THEM BACK. I do not get robed all the time, because i dont play that much, and i dont need a cster and shit vary often. I have my own researcher im trying to make a cster but last i saw the XP was fucked.
If you personaly like geting ripped off, how ever little it is, and not being able to do a damn thing about it if talking to there clan dosent work. you can jest keep doing it but the rest of us dont like geting ripped off and not being able to do anything. It pisses people off.
There is NOONE you can trust because half of the damn people have left the game. Therefor the stupid thef people see this, and are takeing advantage.
Infact, i think its stupid that you are sitting there, saying they should be able to jest do this and there isent a damn thing you or anyone else can do but add them to KoS list and screem there name out over the trade chanel.
Im sorry if you feel this should be a game where the thefs can rob you and you cant do a damn thing about it, cant get revenge or anything. But i dont agree.
btw, why do i care that youv only goten ripped off 2 times? your on pluto, its a lot harder to do. Not all of us play on pluto, nor to all of us whant to.
If KK support the idea of players stealing stuff from others or at least dont do nothing about it, then they should give the players more tools to track, and be able to take revenge on their robbers.
As there are no tools like HeadHunting online system, or tradeskiller ranking system, or whatever you think about.
Then KK should take this actions as abuse, as this is far out of game ATM, becouse the game cant handle this matters, and the players have nothing they can do about em neither. ^= that right there sums up how i feel.
As iv said before though, i dont care about geting ripped off, as long as i can get revenge in some way.
and thats why i have my own capped cster reaseach repairer and a tl 115 imper i say tuff to people that gets stuff nicked Trust no one Suspect every one pk all live large and play cron till you have no life or friends and then play some more.....
I will be back myself soon as im better and ill pk all of u :p
muwahahahaha *crackle* *snap* *pop* o_O
Common knowledge. But this does not stop the bastard from scamming you in the first place.
Why should I have to? This game is a MMORPG. Notice the second letter, the M. That stands for Multiplayer. If I want a single player RPG where I can do everything myself, I'll go play Morrowind, thank you very much.
Fine by me. I don't care one way or the other, I just want something to be able to double check the skill of the person. Maybe even make it so you have to hack your way into the info once HackNet comes around.
So you created your own tradeskill characters. Big whoop-dee-do. See my point above about this being a MMORPG, and not Morrowind.
--Stryfe
MMORPG.
Maloch Octavia
19-07-04, 21:59
Why are people so naive?
1: Never use the Clan apartment for storage, ever. Equally divide the holding of items and rares, between your most trusted players.
2: Never use any old Rearcher, Constructer, or Repairer, you will get done. Start small, build up a level of trust, or create your own character to do it if you're that paranoid.
3: Get feedback on someone before you use their services.
4: Realise that Reakktor have made a statement saying theft happens, if it happens to you, it's your own fault. I agree 100% with this statement, and because I take care, in two years of playing, I have never been duped, ever.
5: Live with it, because it's real, and it happens.
MMORPG.So the fact that you can scam almost without consequences, then simply delete that character and start over is RP? I call bullshit.
As Freaky Fryd said, they simply need to make it so that tradeskills can happen without having your stuff ever leave your control.
--Stryfe
Why are people so naive?
1: Never use the Clan apartment for storage, ever. Equally divide the holding of items and rares, between your most trusted players.
2: Never use any old Rearcher, Constructer, or Repairer, you will get done. Start small, build up a level of trust, or create your own character to do it if you're that paranoid.
3: Get feedback on someone before you use their services.
4: Realise that Reakktor have made a statement saying theft happens, if it happens to you, it's your own fault. I agree 100% with this statement, and because I take care, in two years of playing, I have never been duped, ever.
5: Live with it, because it's real, and it happens.Regarding number 2 and 3, so you want people to have to wait several days for a known good tradeskiller to come on? I once had to wait *3 FREAKING DAYS* to find a CST that was what I felt at a high enough level to build some decent drones for me. And guess what? He wasn't all that known. I'd never seen him before. But I used him anyway. Why? Because I was sick and tired of waiting, that's why. Will I ever use him again? Probably not, I haven't seen him around since.
--Stryfe
steweygrrr
19-07-04, 23:42
"The game will never properly support stealing without some kind of pickpocketing system. Now theres a line of work for the Spy and PE class"
now i see your ideas for that . and it would make nc a very interesting place to be with like you had a special tool that let you have the ability to pickpocket . but the person being pickpocketed would be able to tell sumhow .
and agian . people would abuse it etc etc etc blah blah etc . there isnt realy much in the game that you can do that "is the right thing to do" (i bet 6 people will quote me and use thta agianst me) *laughs*
I was thinking about that a lot actually earlier. Basically it would either be a skill (like PC or RC) or a combo of skills (like RCL and WPL). The defence against it would purely be your int and dex scores (basically if you realise the attempt is taking place and how quick you would stop it), so everyone has a fair enough chance of detecing your pickpocketing attempt. You wouldn't be able to steal items but you could steal money from the victim by hacking his/her personal account (not with a hacktool though, thats too obvious). IF they successfully realise the attempt has gone ahead, they may still lose a little money and receive a message saying so and who by. If they don't realise they've been pickpocketed, they just lose the money. The higher your skill(s) in this the more you can steal.
Maloch Octavia
20-07-04, 00:15
*3 FREAKING DAYS* to find a CST that was what I felt at a high enough level to build some decent drones for me.
Drones, not exactly Rares, eh? Take it in perspective. To get your Rare built, you should wait for someone you know and trust to come on, or to get it Repaired. Otherwise, whatever happens, is your own fault.
I've said it time and time again, I'm not just going to give my watch to any random bloke to fix, that says he can fix it, I'll give it to someone that has proven credentials.
Drones, not exactly Rares, eh? Take it in perspective. To get your Rare built, you should wait for someone you know and trust to come on, or to get it Repaired. Otherwise, whatever happens, is your own fault.
I've said it time and time again, I'm not just going to give my watch to any random bloke to fix, that says he can fix it, I'll give it to someone that has proven credentials.
So on a 1 character server you expect people to wait days so they can get rares repped?
Wtf?You expect people to sit idle doing nothing waiting for a trusted repper to come on and basically do nothing but waste the money they paid for subscription?
tomparadox
20-07-04, 00:30
Drones, not exactly Rares, eh? Take it in perspective. To get your Rare built, you should wait for someone you know and trust to come on, or to get it Repaired. Otherwise, whatever happens, is your own fault.
I've said it time and time again, I'm not just going to give my watch to any random bloke to fix, that says he can fix it, I'll give it to someone that has proven credentials.
hmm, drones arnt rares, but they are a pain in the ass because you half to build so many and droners need to build alot, and refill when they run out.
Why are people so naive?
1: Never use the Clan apartment for storage, ever. Equally divide the holding of items and rares, between your most trusted players.
2: Never use any old Rearcher, Constructer, or Repairer, you will get done. Start small, build up a level of trust, or create your own character to do it if you're that paranoid.
3: Get feedback on someone before you use their services.
4: Realise that Reakktor have made a statement saying theft happens, if it happens to you, it's your own fault. I agree 100% with this statement, and because I take care, in two years of playing, I have never been duped, ever.
5: Live with it, because it's real, and it happens.
yaaaa... you can sit there and do that, but IMO thats the stupid way, sure some of that info is good, i never use clan appy for storage of anything usefull.
As for waiting? wtf? you shouldent half to. So when your "watch" brakes you sit there go around and make freinds with all the clock repair people? NO, and if you do spend 3 days geting to know them and then geting your watch fixed you need some help ;). If your watch brakes in RL, you take it to them, they steel it. What do you do? id call the police, or whoever takes care of it. the dide, if cought, gets punished.
Now go to neocron and look at it. Lets say youv spent a long long time geting this gun, like say a week and a half. You finaly get all the parts, and your to high lvled to get good XP from the weapon your useing. Well, so your going to sit there and get to know every cster you find, and sit and wait 3 more days? Thats 3 days of lost or slow lvling.
Now, if you get it stollen. WTF? your telling me your jest going to sit there in plaza, after takeing a week + to get that guns part, and some dude steels it. and your jest going to sit there and act like some lil happy dude like all is well. BS.
I know for a fact i wouldent be like, * oh, well that sucks, i gess ill half to get parts again(turns to the dude who stoll it) Have a nice day ill be off now* - NO, i dont know about you but im going to be ticked off. Espeshialy sens we cant get reveng...
And about the "naive" thing directed at the people complaining.
Ill say this, READ. With what im reading we dont whant it to stop completly, most of the people i think would be happy with a way to get revenge. i meen, half of them keep LEs in, so you cant gank them, even if they dont have LE in and you jest happen to find them in a pvp zone, you kill them hack there belt. Say they stole a 5 sloted CS, you hack there belt and get a medkit, and they half to pay the medkit and the 4k to GR ( or whatever it is to get your stuff back ), then the 5k most to get poked Vs the 5 sloted CS you lost. - Thats not revenge.
Maloch Octavia
20-07-04, 00:54
1: Policing stealing would be impossible. Far too many false claims, leading to far too much work.
2: Stealing is an integral part of the game, you want to play a Crim? Steal peoples kit!
3: I know about, ten high level CST'ers on Saturn, that I've used, chatted to, and given lots of jobs to. So I generally always have people I can use, otherwise, I don't touch anyone. It's about contacts and meeting people, eh?
4: I created a Spy which I levelled and Lomm'd to pure Repair and pure Research. Solves two big problems with one blow. Lots of people would be avised to do that to deal with their paranoia.
5: Just be careful, don't moan if you get stuff nicked, because really, you had the options and the choices to prevent it happening. In two years, I've not had one thing stolen, and I'm as far along as everyone else.
P.S: Pluto is a poor example, due to numbers.
P.S: Pluto is a poor example, due to numbers.
No its valid as people still play on the server, every server doesnt have saturns populationa nd not being able to trust people in a COPBOT PATROLLED zone is stupid, its like walking into a shop and nicking stuff witha cop standing beside you its utter and complete shite, if you want to roleplay a thief or criminal roleplay it in pepper park or in the wastelands where there is no law not only in zones where the law is strictly enforced.
So on a 1 character server you expect people to wait days so they can get rares repped?If you really have a favored repairer, you'll know their forum name so you can PM them with a request if necessary...Wtf?You expect people to sit idle doing nothing waiting for a trusted repper to come on and basically do nothing but waste the money they paid for subscription?Huh? Last I checked rares were fairly plentiful. It's one's OWN FAULT if one doesn't have a few spares to use. I rarely use my rare weapons and even I have a spare Healing Light, spare TT epic rifle, several spare Pain Easers, spare Redeemers, spare RoGs, etc. I've also got spare non-MC5 rare CPUs, level 3 imps, bone enforcements, and armor.
This game is rated M for Mature. If one is not mature, if one doesn't have the patience for end-game, then one shouldn't play. It's that simple. This isn't Q3A, this isn't UT, this isn't PS. This is Neocron. Certain things take time. People can and will steal your items if you aren't smart about what you're doing. Impatience means loss of items or money. If you don't like it, don't play.
Christ, even Vet maintains a tradeskill alt or two so he can service his own needs...
tomparadox
20-07-04, 02:21
Huh? Last I checked rares were fairly plentiful. It's one's OWN FAULT if one doesn't have a few spares to use. I rarely use my rare weapons and even I have a spare Healing Light, spare TT epic rifle, several spare Pain Easers, spare Redeemers, spare RoGs, etc. I've also got spare non-MC5 rare CPUs, level 3 imps, bone enforcements, and armor.
This game is rated M for Mature. If one is not mature, if one doesn't have the patience for end-game, then one shouldn't play. It's that simple. This isn't Q3A, this isn't UT, this isn't PS. This is Neocron. People can and will steal your items if you aren't smart about what you're doing. Impatience means loss of items or money. If you don't like it, don't play.
omg, gimmie a Fing brake... You people come up with more stupid excuses and resons...
Quit bullshiting around with this *Its your fault you were stupid enuf blah blah blah* and now your going on about people being mature? DUDE, I dont know about YOU, but I DONT pay 10$ a month to sit on my ass and get a rare, to HAVE IT STOLLEN BY SOME BASTERD, and NOT beable to do a damn thing about it.
If you really have a favored repairer, you'll know their forum name so you can PM them with a request if necessary...Huh? Last I checked rares were fairly plentiful. It's one's OWN FAULT if one doesn't have a few spares to use.
You do know that there are people who dont only play neocron all day and that there are people who start up on new servers or god forbid newbs.
Personally I dont use any people I dont know but it doesnt mean that I believe that people should be able to thieve in safezones because when they do they are using the game mechanics to shield themselves from retributiona dn that goes for LEd traders too.
Fair enough I believe people should be able to roleplay thieves but they should get SL hits for it and shouldnt be able to do it in copbot protected areas.
DUDE, I dont know about YOU, but I DONT pay 10$ a month to sit on my ass and get a rare, to HAVE IT STOLLEN BY SOME BASTERD, and NOT beable to do a damn thing about it.First, I pay $22.50/mo for my accounts because I'm in this for the long haul and my three active accounts are all on 6 month term.
Second, you shouldn't be giving your rare weapon to "SOME BASTERD", you should be smart enough to wait and give it to someone who can be trusted.
If all you want to do is go out and kill people and not worry about the consequences to both your gear and reputation, there are a load of FPS games out there which will cater to that sort of thing. Tradeskills are a part of Neocron. You have to live with that. Expecting KK to hold your hand and clean up after you when a repair goes wrong is, well, very carebear, to be honest. This is coming from someone who has never removed his LE in retail... You do know that there are people who dont only play neocron all day and that there are people who start up on new servers or god forbid newbs.Like me? I don't play NC all that much these days. I play a few hours on my days off to get rares or gain a few psi levels, then I log out...Personally I dont use any people I dont know but it doesnt mean that I believe that people should be able to thieve in safezones because when they do they are using the game mechanics to shield themselves from retributiona dn that goes for LEd traders too.Ruin their reputation and make them KoS outside safezones. The safezone problem isn't going away with DoY so you better get used to it - Faction HQs will be safezones, last I checked.
If you really don't like the way things are going on Saturn, then move to another server. That appears to be the one with a big tradeskiller fraud problem. Don't like it? Move to a server with more honorable tradeskillers. I got my ATP of DS on Pluto in the first try. On Saturn, I would've expected two or three attempts. With that kind of reputation, it's a wonder people play there at all.
First, I pay $22.50/mo for my accounts because I'm in this for the long haul and my three active accounts are all on 6 month term.
Second, you shouldn't be giving your rare weapon to "SOME BASTERD", you should be smart enough to wait and give it to someone who can be trusted.
If all you want to do is go out and kill people and not worry about the consequences to both your gear and reputation, there are a load of FPS games out there which will cater to that sort of thing. Tradeskills are a part of Neocron. You have to live with that. Expecting KK to hold your hand and clean up after you when a repair goes wrong is, well, very carebear, to be honest. This is coming from someone who has never removed his LE in retail...Like me? I don't play NC all that much these days. I play a few hours on my days off to get rares or gain a few psi levels, then I log out...Ruin their reputation and make them KoS outside safezones. The safezone problem isn't going away with DoY so you better get used to it - Faction HQs will be safezones, last I checked.
If you really don't like the way things are going on Saturn, then move to another server. That appears to be the one with a big tradeskiller fraud problem. Don't like it? Move to a server with more honorable tradeskillers. I got my ATP of DS on Pluto in the first try. On Saturn, I would've expected two or three attempts. With that kind of reputation, it's a wonder people play there at all.Dude, you're being so freaking thick that one could break a 2x4 on your head and you'd not even notice it.
Since you don't seem to be getting the point, take this example. Thief X goes and makes a newb on his spare character slot. He levels it up, and "tradeskills" a little every day in Plaza 2 to gain people's trust. He continues levelling. Within a couple weeks, he's very well known and rather trusted by quite a few high level players. Then Thief X decides the time has come. A high level tank come to him after having died at an OP war to repaor his Herc chip, along with his 3-slot CS, and a few peices of armor. Thief X says to himself, "Score!" and promply legs it, GRs somewhere, and goes into an alternate appartment. He then transfers the stuff to his main (after having repaired it, of course) and then deletes the character.
Tell me. How the hell is it possible to get retribution? IT'S NOT! So instead of insulting people's intelligence by saying, "Don't be so stupid," how about you accept that a compromise is needed in the current system.
--Stryfe
Within a couple weeks, he's very well known and rather trusted by quite a few high level players.It takes only two weeks to be trusted? You hand over a Herc AND a CS at the SAME TIME? Yeah... You deserve whatever happens to you if that's the way you play.
If you're so worried about your stuff, you'll used clanned people in a clan that keeps track of its members or you'll use long-term players. Paranoia keeps one's stuff safe.
Just out of curiosity Icestorm are you one of these thieves because unlike other people you arent even bringin in the fact that you should be able to roleplay a thief your just spouting how stupid everybody is for ever trusting people and if you trust people you deserve what you get and other paranoid ramblings.
I have never had anything stolen from me in this game but as Ive had tradeskillers on uranus saturn and venus so I know that most people actually trust you rather then distrust you in the game which I actually think is a good thing rather then the whole paranid shite that seems to be growing with new tradeskillers these days.
Now I also have no problem with people roleplaying criminals in general or thieves in particular but I have a problem with people who steal and scam in safezones under the premise of roleplaying one when you cant be a criminal or a thief with cops everywhere waving their rifles about. In neocron there is one penalty for any crime being death so in an ideal world if you steal in a copbot patrolled zone you should be shot by copbots and take a SL hit for it, since its not an ideal world and I doubt there is a way of implementing this you should not be able to scma or steal in copbot patrolled zones but should be able to scam and steal in other zones.
Basically Icestorm give over the your so stupid you should have tradeskill alts or you deserve what you get attitude and try look at it from a roleplay attitude and from the angle of people who dont only play on 4 slot servers so cant have a full cadre of tradeskillers.
juvestar15
20-07-04, 05:04
Everyone is giving their opinion without reading what others have said. It's either that or some people are just arrogant twats with no brains. :rolleyes:
Just out of curiosity Icestorm are you one of these thievesNo, I'm a tradeskiller that does not wish to have a negative stigma attached to tradeskilling in general by implementing an easy-to-abuse rating system. I've already given a compromise solution (NF-like system for tradeskills, if the deal goes sour exit and return to pre-deal state).because unlike other people you arent even bringin in the fact that you should be able to roleplay a thiefThere isn't enough of a population to RP a thief at the moment, especially on my home server, Pluto.your just spouting how stupid everybody is for ever trusting people and if you trust people you deserve what you get and other paranoid ramblings.Stupid is too strong a word. People who willing give over multiple rare items at the same time for a repair are... naive. People who complain about wait times for reliable tradeskillers are, in my opinion, playing the wrong game - twich gaming is that way --->.
So far, I haven't heard of a good solution to the "theft" problem from anyone. All the ideas posted so far are entirely too open to abuse. Even this:Now I also have no problem with people roleplaying criminals in general or thieves in particular but I have a problem with people who steal and scam in safezones under the premise of roleplaying one when you cant be a criminal or a thief with cops everywhere waving their rifles about. In neocron there is one penalty for any crime being death so in an ideal world if you steal in a copbot patrolled zone you should be shot by copbots and take a SL hit for it, CopBots are SOUL LIGHT GUARDS ONLY. They do not shoot TG, BD, or any other "criminal" factions at this point in time. You have given absolutely no suggestions on how to tie scamming into Soul Light such that it can't be abused. All you're saying is the same things others have. You can't get to Step 3 without Step 2, no matter how many underpants gnomes you employ.
You can whine all you want, but the game's not set up for KK-regulated trade. The best you'll probably see is a remote repair/research/const option with a dialog box for payment. I doubt you'll see it tied to Soul Light, ever.
So far, I haven't heard of a good solution to the "theft" problem from anyone. All the ideas posted so far are entirely too open to abuse.
No worse then the current system where you steal with no repurcussions.
No worse then the current system where you steal with no repurcussions.Oh no? So if 10 people ask me for services an I perform my services correctly, then they turn around and all cry foul and blacklist me, lowering my Soul Light, that's not abuse? Excuse me? Exactly how do I prevent that from happening in your Step 1 ---> Step 3 solution?
You're attempting to introduce an arbitration system into the game without explaining how that would be implemented without massive amounts of manpower, and uncorrupted manpower at that. Both are things that KK has failed to provide in the past and I see no indication it'll ever be able to.
I doubt there is a way of implementing.
In future please read my fucking posts, okay.
I know its abusable.
Talk to a copbot and read what he says to you, and the only reason they dont kill anti-city factions is because anti-city dont have a city of their own to call home yet.
In my opinion scamming and stealing should be branded an exploit in safezones so scammers and thieves would have to bring their trade out of safezones so people know to be beware of them.
tomparadox
20-07-04, 05:32
First, I pay $22.50/mo for my accounts because I'm in this for the long haul and my three active accounts are all on 6 month term.
Second, you shouldn't be giving your rare weapon to "SOME BASTERD", you should be smart enough to wait and give it to someone who can be trusted.
If all you want to do is go out and kill people and not worry about the consequences to both your gear and reputation, there are a load of FPS games out there which will cater to that sort of thing. Tradeskills are a part of Neocron. You have to live with that. Expecting KK to hold your hand and clean up after you when a repair goes wrong is, well, very carebear, to be honest. This is coming from someone who has never removed his LE in retail... Yo, dude. Quit being dense... Good for you, you pay 22$ a month, big freeken deel so do i, i used 10$ as an example...
Hmm, lets see about the besterd thing. Learn to read... Ok, leme try to explain this in your terms.
Stupid is too strong a word. People who willing give over multiple rare items at the same time for a repair are... naive. People who complain about wait times for reliable tradeskillers are, in my opinion, playing the wrong game - twich gaming is that way --->.
So far, I haven't heard of a good solution to the "theft" problem from anyone. All the ideas posted so far are entirely too open to abuse. Even this: if you ask me stupided isent "too strong a word", dude, THERE IS no WAY IN HELL, YOU, or ANYONE is going to convince me, or most of the other people out there that we are suposed to make our own damn cster ect. WHAT the hell kind of game would this be if EVERY damn person had to make a trade skiller, because people are stealing shit, and you have no way to get revenge on them.
Omfg, rofl. KoS them? LMFAO... dude, if the moron who ripps you off is stupid enuf to give you his alts names than hes a bad thef. Other than that you cant get him back, becuase he mostlikly has an LE in, therefor no KoS.
As for spaming there name on trade as a thef? omfg lota good thats ganna do, theyll jest delet the char and give an alt the gun, use the gun or sell it.
Or, if they dont delet the char, theyll lay low off of that char and wait.
Face it, there is NO way the current system is fair. THERE NEEDS TO BE A WAY TO GET THEM BACK.
Rep is a bunch of BS, its useless almost on a 4 char server. KoS is useless, because as iv said LE = no KoS.
Untill someones whos head isent like the armor on a RL tank, im out of this thread.
In future please read my fucking posts, okay.I am reading your posts. You want a way to stop scamming but can't come up with a workable solution, but you still post flawed "solutions". Exactly who does that help?In my opinion scamming and stealing should be branded an exploit in safezones so scammers and thieves would have to bring their trade out of safezones so people know to be beware of them.And how do you expect KK to enforce such a rule? It's one person's word against the other's. I can go up to someone, give them a Psi chip that looks like a DS, have them click OK, then claim they scammed me.
There are no systems in place in Neocron to allow for branding scamming an exploit. You're entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't fix the problem.
There's only one partial solution to the problem and that's escrow NF-style. You'd still be able to have scamming by making that escrow usable only at certain terminals/locations, requiring negative soul light or anti-City to rely on honor among thieves. That's a workable solution to the problem. Combine that with remote research/repair/recycle/construction (or make some things remote, some not), and you end up with a potential fix to the scam problem. It doesn't get around skill (and I'll never advocate wearing skills on one's sleeves unless I get cons on people's sleeves, too), but it's a good step in the right direction.
But hey, I'm just pointing out a WORKABLE solution to the problem. If you want to go on assuming the worst about us tradeskillers, be my guest.
Oh, well excuse me your great and noble one, but were the hell are your ideas?I did already, on page one (well, page one in my browser - this thread is only four pages long):The only possible work-around I see may be an automated escrow system (which I detailed in a previous thread) which requires no KK intervention and functions similar to NF, but how feasable that is would be something for KK to answer. It may also not work around rarepart IDing.People have also suggested remote functionality for tools. That would also get around some of the scamming. Those are workable solutions. A reputation/skills-on-sleeve/Soul Light linkage system isn't workable that I can see.THERE IS no WAY IN HELL, YOU, or ANYONE is going to convince me, or most of the other people out there that we are suposed to make our own damn cster ect. WHAT the hell kind of game would this be if EVERY damn person had to make a trade skiller, because people are stealing shit, and you have no way to get revenge on them.If the situation is that bad on Saturn, everyone should dedicate a slot to a tradeskill gimp. Maybe it'll solve your problems. Pluto doesn't appear to have the same sort of problem. Face it, there is NO way the current system is fair. THERE NEEDS TO BE A WAY TO GET THEM BACK.Why? What do you want, a way to PK shifty tradeskillers or a way to avoid being conned? I doubt you can have the former, but the latter is quite doable given the systems in-game now.
As I have pointed out I have or have had tradeskillers on 3 servers and tbh nothing can really be done until item/money tracking is put in with DoY and I really dont want to have to suggest to put in remote tradeskilling as it stops the whole possibility of roleplaying a criminal.
You continually point out that there is no viable alternative to the current system but do you actually think the current system is any good either or just the easiest system to have in the game as it is?
tomparadox
20-07-04, 05:38
I did already, on page one (well, page one in my browser - this thread is only four pages long):
I already edited it out before you posted, but you still dont win any points with me, so what you whant this to turn into a damn SWG tradeing system? oook...
.If the situation is that bad on Saturn, everyone should dedicate a slot to a tradeskill gimp.
Why are you presuming its only a saturn problem?
You continually point out that there is no viable alternative to the current system but do you actually think the current system is any good either or just the easiest system to have in the game as it is?There's no viable way to tie tradeskills to Soul Light that doesn't require massive human intervention.
The rampant scamming on four-char servers is a function of the four char slots. KK gives you a choice to play one char on a server or four. Choosing four means higher risk of losing items. I don't necessarily believe KK should be faulted - they gave you the freedom to have multiple characters and with it comes consequences. Meanwhile, Plutonians pay extra for their characters and thus have a bit more attachment to their reputations - shuffle-and-delete is still possible, but it's far more expensive to do it.
I think the easiest thing is to add remote functionality to the tools and add a dialog box to negotiate pricing, but apparently KK doesn't agree at this time. Escrow is also viable, but harder to implement I imagine (have to work around the NF research exploit and the build-until-good potential exploit).
Both make tradeskill thieving very difficult to pull off, something I think KK would prefer to keep in the game.
If only tradebgs were fixed :P most stolen items are taken masked as "it must of been a tradebug" ><
-Crono
Why are you presuming its only a saturn problem?Because Pluto has a grand total of 15 to 90 people on at any given time, we're all relatively familiar, and we're all relatively long-term players. Screw one person over, and everyone will know about it. I use Saturn more as an example as it's the most populated four-char server last I checked.
Ok, im not a theif and here is my opinion.
I think its great that people can steal, people do it in real life and tbh they RARELY get caught. when i was a kid i got at least 3 bikes stolen... never found, nor never caught the person who stole them.
my brother got a fuckin 500$ skateboard w/ assloads of pro skater signatures on it stolen, never got it back nor found out who took it.
even if you know someone stole something its doubtful you can convince a cop that they took it. the person can usually say WTF this is mine! or somethin.
anyway, stealing is RP. and long ago KK even had a sticky about their stance on it being RP. This was about the time all those fake Roe's and people acting like other people. KK said if they were caught they would be banned for acting like someone else. But if they are not pretending like someone in particular and just scamming ie: saying they have TL200 construct then it is considered RP and they are not violating the rules.
i think it is RP. freakin get over it. I lost a MC5 to a scammer but tbh i could care less i can get another if i tied i even gave props to the dude who scammed me for pullin it off he did a great trick.
and if you say "I HAVE TO WORK SO HARD TO GET THE ITEM JUST FOR SOME ASS TO TAKE IT IN A COUPLE SECONDS." dont give a fuckin item you worked so hard to, to a complete stranger. ask friends for a person they recommend or someone others are/have already used.
also they didnt just take it in a couple seconds they had to have worked to at least convince you to give them the item. if you gave it to them without even thinking than its your damn fault for being so ignorant. the world is not perfect, so why should neocron be?
like i said i was scammed out of a mc5 i was selling he put in the correct amount of money in trade then acted like he was sync'ing, he relogged came back and put in same amount of money, said brb he has a phone call, i was lookin at stats of the chip for a bit just admiring it and he came back, took off a 0 from the end and i clicked ok, he clicked ok, i ended up with about 10% of the price i was asking for ;P i told him gj scamming me ;] he said thx ;P
Stealing is RP deffinetly.
Bot people who steal something from you right infront of yourface and you can easily ID him almost always get caught :P
thats the main problem. also 4 char servers with peoples own "tradeskill twink theif" :p
i love 1 char servers for having this almost never happen :P
Stuff still happens due to mysterious "trade bugs" (half of which u know are BS ;P )
-Crono
juvestar15
20-07-04, 06:35
I think its great that people can steal, people do it in real life and tbh they RARELY get caught.
You haven't read other posts either. :mad: :mad:
They didn't steal your bikes in front of you did they? Or you weren't at a bloody police station when they took the bike from you.
Like Snow said, thieves take advantage of the game's mechanics and come out calling it RP. It's wrong. That to me is exploiting.
What about credit duping? Do we call that "cheating the banks"? :rolleyes:
You haven't read other posts either. :mad: :mad:
They didn't steal your bikes in front of you did they? Or you weren't at a bloody police station when they took the bike from you.
Like Snow said, thieves take advantage of the game's mechanics and come out calling it RP. It's wrong. That to me is exploiting.
What about credit duping? Do we call that "cheating the banks"? :rolleyes:umm... its not exploiting if some people are stupid enough to give their items to complete strangers...
umm... its not exploiting if some people are stupid enough to give their items to complete strangers...
They don't have to be complete strangers to do it. As Stryfe showed, you can gradually gain peoples' trust, and then when someone brings you their MC5s chip to rep, wham, you're gone. And if you never leave a safezone on that char, you never face any retribution. Scamming and so on is perfectly fine by me if the perpetrators are willing to face up to the consequences. Seriously, those of you who think it's OK for someone to gian people's trust and then steal their stuff without facing any punishment, must think it would be OK to take away the SL hit for PKing in hunting zones? It has just as much RP justification. Why should there be consequences for one crime and not for another?
tomparadox
20-07-04, 07:02
Incase you dont know my version of punished is revenge, something worse than being KoS when you have a damn LE in, and something worse than geting your name spamed all over trade for being a thef, to me that is not revenge... Revenge to me is were you CAN get them back in some war, i dont know of a system, i cant think of one off the top of my head right now, because i am tired and am about to go to bed.
as sickar said, it dosent half to be a complete stranger. I GOT RIPPED OF BY A DUDE I KNOW. If the person knows you probly have something of use, they might try to make freinds with you to get it, by steeling it from you.
They don't have to be complete strangers to do it. As Stryfe showed, you can gradually gain peoples' trust, and then when someone brings you their MC5s chip to rep, wham, you're gone. And if you never leave a safezone on that char, you never face any retribution. Scamming and so on is perfectly fine by me if the perpetrators are willing to face up to the consequences. Seriously, those of you who think it's OK for someone to gian people's trust and then steal their stuff without facing any punishment, must think it would be OK to take away the SL hit for PKing in hunting zones? It has just as much RP justification. Why should there be consequences for one crime and not for another?
yea it does piss me off when someone doesnt fess up to scamming... because i admit i got pissed off at a former bud of mine With Slit Wrists and stole 3 CS's from him. told roe that i was picking them up for him and she gave them to me... i took them and gave them to noobs.
anyway a certain guy on saturn stole a 5 slot CS from someone i know and sold it for hella lot. and the bad thing is he wont even admit it, he calls ME a scammer anytime i bring it up... im serious he sits and spams that he's cnst'ing and tell people "beware: if u get high slots he'll take and sell it" and he says "STFU U LIAR I BUILT U A 1 SLOT GUN AND NOW UR PISSED FUCK OFF" or somethin like that.... really really annoys me >;|
tomparadox
20-07-04, 07:06
yea it does piss me off when someone doesnt fess up to scamming... because i admit i got pissed off at a former bud of mine With Slit Wrists and stole 3 CS's from him. told roe that i was picking them up for him and she gave them to me... i took them and gave them to noobs.
anyway a certain guy on saturn stole a 5 slot CS from someone i know and sold it for hella lot. and the bad thing is he wont even admit it, he calls ME a scammer anytime i bring it up... im serious he sits and spams that he's cnst'ing and tell people "beware: if u get high slots he'll take and sell it" and he says "STFU U LIAR I BUILT U A 1 SLOT GUN AND NOW UR PISSED FUCK OFF" or somethin like that.... really really annoys me >;|
yes i agree. that pisses me off
AAAGGGGHHH!! *explodes*
IceStorm, you are not being reasonable! Do you know just how fucking long it takes to cap by pure tradeskill? DO YOU?! And besides, what about the "average Joe" who goes to work for 10 hours a day (accounting for some transport time), and generally only has a couple hours a day to play NC? Do you expect them to have pure tradeskiller alts?!
Here's a little fact for you. In order to be completely self-sufficient on a four-character server, you need two accounts. Each of the accounts will have one completely dedicated tradeskiller, one being research and some other DEX-based skill, the other being a constructor with some other skill in DEX with one of the two having REP as the DEX-based skill. Then you have to have one character on both accounts who can poke MC5's, but other than that, they are free to do whatever. That's a total of 4 characters (granted, only two are complete tradeskill bitches). Add another if you want a barterer in the mix. Even using drones for levelling, capping all those characters would take so much freaking time for the average joe it would simply drive him mad. Not to mention how boring it is.
And I still advocate an expanded version of what Freaky Fryd said earlier in the thread. We need some sort of trade window that A) doesn't have the damned "drop all back to inventory" bug; B) allows customer to see the chosen skill of person, maybe only in "greater than 50", "greater than 100", etc form; C) makes is so that your items *NEVER LEAVE YOUR CONTROL*, but you have to stand there during the entire process (you still have the ability to give the items to the tradeskiller, which will enable you to go away and do something else, but you risk losing them to theft).
--Stryfe
IceStorm, you are not being reasonable! Do you know just how fucking long it takes to cap by pure tradeskill? DO YOU?!You don't need to cap. 80 or so base INT is plenty with imps and glove.And besides, what about the "average Joe" who goes to work for 10 hours a day (accounting for some transport time), and generally only has a couple hours a day to play NC? Do you expect them to have pure tradeskiller alts?!First, there are no average joes playing NC any longer. The only ones left are the hardcore or new MMO-seasoned players. Second, I don't expect everyone to have alts. I suspect the scam problem isn't much of a problem for the majority who are smart about their dealings.Here's a little fact for you. In order to be completely self-sufficient on a four-character server, you need two accounts.One account, one char. Either drop in your apt foyer or find someone to hold your stuff (and if you can't find anyone to hold your stuff you have other issues beyond the scope of this thread). To be sufficient != Uber at everything. I do research, construction, hacking, and rifle use on a single character on Pluto. With all the things KK added, I'm fine. If I need more of a boost, I go to an op. One can easily fit research, construction, repair, and recycling on a single character. Poking isn't necessary to avoid scamming as it's not possible to scam someone being poked due to the remote usage of the tool.Even using drones for levelling, capping all those characters would take so much freaking time for the average joe it would simply drive him mad. Not to mention how boring it is.Who said anything about being capped? Enough to use an SS is fine. 84 INT, with all the INT implants around, isn't hard to get to.We need some sort of trade window that A) doesn't have the damned "drop all back to inventory" bug;That's not a bug. It's intentional. KK added it on purpose. Get used to it.B) allows customer to see the chosen skill of person, maybe only in "greater than 50", "greater than 100", etc form;Absolutely not, unless you also make every combatant's CON setup visible.C) makes is so that your items *NEVER LEAVE YOUR CONTROL*, but you have to stand there during the entire process (you still have the ability to give the items to the tradeskiller, which will enable you to go away and do something else, but you risk losing them to theft).That's a great idea, and I've said before it makes sense to have either an NF-styled escrow or remote tools, but it will almost completely eliminate the ability to scam someone and that's something KK does not appear to be willing to do.
Absolutely not, unless you also make every combatant's CON setup visible.
It would be nice to have this. That the players can make a set number of skills visible via the city com.
If it's a PLAYER choice, I don't have a problem with it. If it's forced, I don't agree with it.
I do research, construction, hacking, and rifle use on a single character on Pluto. With all the things KK added, I'm fine. If I need more of a boost, I go to an op. One can easily fit research, construction, repair, and recycling on a single character.
I guarantee you break tech parts, build poor quality rares, and can't hit the side of a barn at close range with your rifle.
Anyway, the easiest way to fix the repairer scam is to implement remote repairs just like remote poking. There is even a remote repair tool and nanites already there, they just have to code it so that the recipient of the service requires some nanites in their inventory and the item they want repaired in their processor.
Beta vets: Was there always a remote poking tool or at some point was it necessary to hand your imps off to the poker to be implanted in the recipient? KK obviously saw fit to implement it differently; I presume it's because people generally need pokes a lot more often than they need repairs. I don't know why KK cba to implement what I propose above. If they did it like that, the only trust issue would be "does this guy have as much skill as he says he has?" and not "gosh I hope this guy doesn't try to pull some BS stunt and run off with all my stuff."
I have a pure research/repairer on Saturn and it always amazes me how someone I don't know at all will just hand off their speedgun or slotted rare to me to fix it up. I don't have a reputation with the public, just 150+ skill at repping. For people in small clans that don't have a dedicated tradeskill branch, they'll take whoever they can find to do their jobs.
It doesn't help that on Saturn the tradewindow bug is about 10 times worse than on the other servers. You can have your stuff in the window, just waiting for someone to type in their numbers, and it'll fall back into your inventory 1 second before you hit "ready". Highly scammable.
KK's stance on scamming and tradewindow exploits has always been a total bullshit cop-out to get out of programming a better solution. They call it "RP" but it's just pure slack on their part.
I guarantee you break tech parts,Everyone breaks rares, including researchers with 220 research. I'm at 160 when at a lab. That's plenty for me.build poor quality rares,No, I don't. I'm 145 CST in the city, 170 at a factory, and if I really want to go higher I can pop in CPUs (all I have is an SS right now). My rares are the same as anyone else's rares. We had a TANK building rares on Pluto a week or two ago, that's how wacky rare builds are.and can't hit the side of a barn at close range with your rifle.I cap the TT Epic and my Healing Light hits quite well, even in its uncapped state.It doesn't help that on Saturn the tradewindow bug is about 10 times worse than on the other servers. You can have your stuff in the window, just waiting for someone to type in their numbers, and it'll fall back into your inventory 1 second before you hit "ready".The window clearing is on a 2 minute timer, I believe. The window will also clear out if a zone burps. If I'm attempting to trade in a burping zone on Pluto, I'm very careful to only click once. If things don't work, I tell the trader to move to another zone.KK's stance on scamming and tradewindow exploits has always been a total bullshit cop-out to get out of programming a better solution.So far, no one has suggested a solution which won't be easily abused and still provides the opportunity to scam people. If KK wants scaming to be possible, you'll need to find a solution that allows it on a level KK's happy with.
So far, no one has suggested a solution which won't be easily abused and still provides the opportunity to scam people. If KK wants scaming to be possible, you'll need to find a solution that allows it on a level KK's happy with.
I just did. My suggestion above will still allow reppers to scam people for cash, but not for their items.
need a window that opens where you put your item in it and the cash then the repper clicks rep.... no passing over just a cst rep, same with cst the person puts parts into a cst trade type winodw with his cash and the cst hits start takes the money and leaves you be with your constructing rare.
There is no reason KK should become involved in in-game theft. Account hacking is the only area KK should get involved in. Tradeskill theft/tech part swaping is part of the game. Work it out amongst yourselves.So if someone decides to delete and recreate a bunch of characters to lower a legit trader's reputation, that's ok? Yeah, right...
Any reputation system will be abused. If you think tradeskillers are hard to find now, wait until you start trying to hang signs on us.
Every decent community has some kind of theft protection.
How would YOU work this out, if someone would have stolen from you?
By deleting and enrolling new chars you dont build reputation...
You don't need to cap. 80 or so base INT is plenty with imps and glove.First, there are no average joes playing NC any longer. The only ones left are the hardcore or new MMO-seasoned players. Second, I don't expect everyone to have alts. I suspect the scam problem isn't much of a problem for the majority who are smart about their dealings.One account, one char. Either drop in your apt foyer or find someone to hold your stuff (and if you can't find anyone to hold your stuff you have other issues beyond the scope of this thread). To be sufficient != Uber at everything. I do research, construction, hacking, and rifle use on a single character on Pluto. With all the things KK added, I'm fine. If I need more of a boost, I go to an op. One can easily fit research, construction, repair, and recycling on a single character. Poking isn't necessary to avoid scamming as it's not possible to scam someone being poked due to the remote usage of the tool.Who said anything about being capped? Enough to use an SS is fine. 84 INT, with all the INT implants around, isn't hard to get to.That's not a bug. It's intentional. KK added it on purpose. Get used to it.Absolutely not, unless you also make every combatant's CON setup visible.That's a great idea, and I've said before it makes sense to have either an NF-styled escrow or remote tools, but it will almost completely eliminate the ability to scam someone and that's something KK does not appear to be willing to do.You have my pity. Your character probably stinks at building rares, and I can gaurentee that he stinks at researching. So what's your expensive tech part breakage rate? 20%?
As for the average Joe responses... WTF? I am that average Joe! I work for 9 hours every day and can't play for much more than a few hours every night! Do I want to spend that time levelling up a tradeskiller? NO! I want to be hunting. I want to be participating in OP wars. I want to be killing people. I want to be helping people. I *don't* want be using a mind-numbing method (drones) to level a tradeskill character. I want to be having *FUN*!
Get used to the trade bug? No way. It should be fixed. If it was an anti-exploit "feature" then I'm sorry, but that just seems to me to be a hackjob fix.
That's it. I'm sick of some people's lack of ability to think outside their own experiences. Good bye.
--Stryfe
tomparadox
20-07-04, 20:48
You don't need to cap. 80 or so base INT is plenty with imps and glove.
Dude, dont be stupid, that still takes a long ass time to get. And a lot of Fing money OR all freeken day in P2 waiting for someone that needs something *NON RARE* build for a change.
First, there are no average joes playing NC any longer. The only ones left are the hardcore or new MMO-seasoned players. Second, I don't expect everyone to have alts. I suspect the scam problem isn't much of a problem for the majority who are smart about their dealings.
dude, i have one thing to say to you, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS.
I go to school 6 or so hours a day and then have 4 or so hours of shit to do after that. Also i know a lot of people who work and play the game.
One account, one char. Either drop in your apt foyer or find someone to hold your stuff (and if you can't find anyone to hold your stuff you have other issues beyond the scope of this thread). To be sufficient != Uber at everything. I do research, construction, hacking, and rifle use on a single character on Pluto. With all the things KK added, I'm fine. If I need more of a boost, I go to an op. One can easily fit research, construction, repair, and recycling on a single character. Poking isn't necessary to avoid scamming as it's not possible to scam someone being poked due to the remote usage of the tool.
wow, and we give a sh*t about what you do on pluto? Dude, #1 not everyone probly is *hardcore* like you say you are. Not everyone can do that because they have a little something called *Life*(Yes i know that might be beyond you but oh well) geting in the way.
And now with the lack of people, Its hard to find people that dont need a damn CS build and whant a damn 200+ cster or they wont take you. I meen, shit if you know someone on uranus that can stand there and provide me with the money, The parts, the BPs ect till im lvl 80+ int, ill happaly lvl a cster, but untill then i dont have the time, reason, money to do it.
Who said anything about being capped? Enough to use an SS is fine. 84 INT, with all the INT implants around, isn't hard to get to.
dude, 80 still takes a long time as iv said before.
Absolutely not, unless you also make every combatant's CON setup visible.
Dude, what the hell? thats all i have to say is what the hell? Dude, someone provides a actual idea, to help stop scamers, and your saying we should be able to see peoples cons with that? why? because we whant fucking proff that they are CSTers there suposed to do it to there con? or are you lieing on this forum and your geting scared because your one of the people ripping everyone off? i meen your being dense headed enuf to be one...
That's a great idea, and I've said before it makes sense to have either an NF-styled escrow or remote tools, but it will almost completely eliminate the ability to scam someone and that's something KK does not appear to be willing to do.
Wow, the first thing positive iv seen in your whole post Oo, yes that is a good idea, i wish theyd do the remote CST tool, and rep tool.
*moves on to his next post*
Everyone breaks rares, including researchers with 220 research. I'm at 160 when at a lab. That's plenty for me.
I dont, im at 170, without a OP, and i dont go to one. If you do it in a serten order, and when one fails, you move to a diferent part. And you can avoid brakeing them, atlest most of the time.
The window clearing is on a 2 minute timer, I believe. The window will also clear out if a zone burps. If I'm attempting to trade in a burping zone on Pluto, I'm very careful to only click once. If things don't work, I tell the trader to move to another zone. If it is on a 2 minute timer, they need to get rid of it, because its Fing anoying.
Burping zones? what the hell is that? lol...
So far, no one has suggested a solution which won't be easily abused and still provides the opportunity to scam people. If KK wants scaming to be possible, you'll need to find a solution that allows it on a level KK's happy with.
Dude, ANY Fing solution is better than how it is now. Right now it IS TO EASY to scam people.
/close turning into flamefest.
also look on other games and see how fuckin easy it is to scam... get over it.
tomparadox
20-07-04, 22:00
/close turning into flamefest.
also look on other games and see how fuckin easy it is to scam... get over it.
Dude, thats other games. It dosent half to be like that on NC when there could be a way to fix it.
Maloch Octavia
20-07-04, 23:11
I sat in Plaza Two for an hour today, Repairing and Researching.
It's been a great day, stowed with business.
However..
In one hour, different people have handed me:
Special Forces CPU
Special Science CPU
MC5 Hercules Chip
Psi-Core CPU
Most of the 3rd Level Power Armours
4 Slot Cursed Soul
3 Slot Ravager
MC5 Hawkings
Roughly 40 or so Techparts to Research.
Plus more.
Now, I'm honest, I'm trustworthy, and I have no need to steal these items.
However.......
What a bunch of idiots.
Really.
Total random stranger, that shouts out an appealing advert.. "Here's what I slaved for months to get.."
*Shakes his head*
You all get what you deserve.
What a bunch of idiots.You get business and then call your customers idiots? What the fuck is wrong with you?
Maloch Octavia
20-07-04, 23:17
Hey, my customers pay for my service, not my attitude.
At the end of the day, they were all fucking idiots.
Because I did not know any of them, had never done previous business with them, and it was clearly obvious, they were just running up and giving it to the first guy that shouted a good Repair level.
People complain when they get scammed with attitudes like this?!
No, they totally deserve it for their own blindness.
Hey, my customers pay for my service, not my attitude.Fair enough. At least you're honest.
Maloch Octavia
20-07-04, 23:24
*BING*
Hey, remember when we all started playing NC for our first time, and we all listened to, and believed that those tannoy announcements in Plaza, actually meant something?
Reakktor need to make one which goes thus:
"City Admin remind all Runners to be on the lookout for Rogue Traders. Scam artists and thieves have been known to operate in this area. Please be vigilente and cautious with your belongings."
That would at least alert the nibs to the fact that this happens.
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