View Full Version : The Gentank
Stats:
STR 100
CON 100
DEX 70
INT 20
PSI 10
Available Professions:
• Soldier
• Berserker
Initial Class Description:
„The GenTank is a product of the Ceres Wars. He is particularly robust and strong and was bred as a genetically engineered soldier. After the war was over, the human tanks were left to themselves for ‘humanitarian reasons’ rather than being destroyed. Due to the fact that the original genetic blueprint did not call for any particular emotional or intellectual prowess, a GenTank cannot develop any Psi skills. This emotionally disturbed individual is extremely aggressive and talented in the use of all kinds of weapons.”
How we see the GenTank:
A frontline fighter able to take an exceptional amount of punishment without relying on a support class. High CON allows for high health and resistance values.
Due to high STR and fairly high DEX, GenTanks are able to use most types of weapons. They should focus on melee weapons or cannons, the types they are most proficient with.
Melee should produce a fairly high damage output, while the tanks using their cannons from the back row should do medium to high damage across a large area (AoE) and moderately high direct damage. They should not the best damage dealers due to their survival potential, but still do a decent amount of damage
As originally intended, we’d like to see the GenTanks without any form of Psi capability. New types of medical equipment would help them stay alive without relying on Psi.
Potential changes:
• Completely remove Psi from the GenTanks and provide them with additional forms of healing like tank-only “super” medkits.
• Add more weapons fitting the tank, with increased effects like knockback.
• After fixing armor and resistances, make it possible for the tank to reach high damage reduction values without Psi support through armor and high resist skills. In return, we are looking into the possibility to make PPU spells less effective on tanks.
Ok, remove PSI from GenTanks. Not an issue.
Please add new weaponary for both Melee and Heavy tanks! Along with any realism treatment ie: the knockback.
However, the current GenTank is not the easiest to cap. Most complain that Monk's INT is the hardest, but have you tried to level your CON to 100? Bare in mind how you gain CON exp, is has to be the hardest. Now fair anough, GenTanks have the highest CON, but its pointless in them having the highest CON when they can mostly only use around 95% of the CON, ie: CON level 95! It would be nice to see maybe a percentage increase on CON leveling, or more ways of receiving CON. Just look down the sub-skills list and pick something!!
I do totally agree that GenTank's should be able to fight solo, without PPU support or any other class support.
Back in the old NC1 days, I remember seeing a chart or something showing the Offensive/Defensive rating of each class.
Offensive --- Defensive
APU --- PPU
GenTank --- GenTank
PE/Spy --- Spy/PE
Where as you can see, the APU tops the offensive, and PPU tops the Defensive. Gentanks being the middle who can dish out as much damage as they can take or vise versa, and PE's and Spy's battling out at the bottom(I admit, I cannot remember which way round they would place :))
PepsiPlayer
17-03-06, 18:33
This wont go down to well, but here goes.
How about increasing the weight of a Tank weapon and ammo, after all they are meant to be frontline troops designed to take on WB's and the like, this would obviously have the negative effect of slowing a tank down, so to compensate have higher damage output and bigger clips in weapons and maybe have two different classes of tank.
Frontline attack troops with high damage at close range and low at distance and the other type of troop could be like a mortar troop with high damage at long range and very low at close range.
just a thought.
Remove psi, give Tanks stimpacks (name stolen from Fallout).
How about some higher TL heavy tank weapons? Seeing as the PvP line pretty much tops out with the TL105 Cursed Soul at the moment. That way we could have some higher damage output HCs going around, but there weapons WOULD be harder to cap.
I see no reasom for PPUs to be less effective on tanks really, but we should be careful to avoid throwing them too many bonii (as a "weak" class at the moment) lest balance swings the other way.
perhaps make tank armour distinctly the best in the game, rather than monk?
As originally intended, we’d like to see the GenTanks without any form of Psi capability. New types of medical equipment would help them stay alive without relying on Psi.
I agree i think Gentanks should have no psi, however that would change give 10 free "stat" points, where would they go? I would suggest Intelligence as the only option as Strength is 100, Constitution is 100, and Dex is 70.
If you increase dex tank will be basically buff pe's. So intelligence would be the awnser, this may mean you need to increase some vehicle stats so tanks cant drive them though.
• Completely remove Psi from the GenTanks and provide them with additional forms of healing like tank-only “super” medkits.
Good idea, like i said above, however I have an idea instead of "Super" medkits, how about a device like an implant too but a "regeneration tool" something that injects you with nanites that rebuild you, :) I hope thats a good idea.
• Add more weapons fitting the tank, with increased effects like knockback.
Knockback maybe a bad idea as it might cause issue with other players miss when they target you thus "over powering" gentanks. More weapons I agree I can give you some good pointers for weapons:
Rocket Launcher (we have Missle Rocket launchers) Rocket launchers fire in a straight line and fast, missiles are slow and lock on, sometimes following.
Gatlin Laser cannons, multi barreled laser cannons, like the speed gatlin, with no kick back since they dont fire projectiles.
Rail Guns, weapons that use magnets to launch projectiles extreamly powerful and leathal down side is large lock on and low ammo hold (4) basically a sniper cannon.
10-30mm cannons, Good ol 20mm cannons that fire shells to be honest i have no idea why these arent already in games.
Auto cannons, basically a rapid fire cannon. in-accurate but more damaging than normal cannons.
• After fixing armor and resistances, make it possible for the tank to reach high damage reduction values without Psi support through armor and high resist skills. In return, we are looking into the possibility to make PPU spells less effective on tanks.
Would be good but only if they arent as strong as ppus are now with holy shelter etc, and if they dont get much bonus from ppu support, maybe shelter and def wont work on them. One possible idea would be to make shelter and def self cast only, but that would need serious work to make sure ppus still had a role and other classes werent under powered.
Also PLEASE FIX THE BLOODY HC Tank pa :) it gives -25 athletics and hc tanks already suffer slow run speed from guns it just makes sure all skilled hc tanks dont use pa. Ask any GM about 90-95% of hc tanks dont use pa simply because of the athletic penalty, why not change it to something like MC? so it would mirror the mc pa?
I hope all this is of any use to you guys, if you want more information about any of my points send me a pm but i will check this thread frequently.
Edit:// How about some higher TL heavy tank weapons? Seeing as the PvP line pretty much tops out with the TL105 Cursed Soul at the moment. That way we could have some higher damage output HCs going around, but there weapons WOULD be harder to cap.
I see no reasom for PPUs to be less effective on tanks really, but we should be careful to avoid throwing them too many bonii (as a "weak" class at the moment) lest balance swings the other way.
perhaps make tank armour distinctly the best in the game, rather than monk?
Basically your saying "increase the offence and defence of tanks" that is wrong wrong wrong then you create the bloody "Tank-o-cron" like with hybrid monks!
They said tanks have more defense and less offense than apus basically. This should be true! Dont add something if your just trying to overpower the tank, also pls not TPC (TL 110) and Specail Ray cannon (tl 115) perhaps remove the faction requirement?
.hack//sign
17-03-06, 18:47
you should drop the 10 psi and throw it in dex, thus making dex tanks a little more viable :rolleyes: imagine a tank running around using a RoG or a judge :eek:
or add 5 to dex and 5 to int,i mean comon, tanks arnt THAT dumb are they? :wtf:
Perhap re-raising the idea of artillery would be good here. High-damage, high range, large AoE weapons, that when drawn reduce tanks to extremely slow/nil runspeed. Create a high int-req or spy-only "target painter" that can be used to aim the fire from the tanks weapon, or they can aim it themselves. Seems to suit Thanatos's description for what HC tanks should be doing.
Remove PSI as said, like the idea of "tank only super med kits" but with the monk nerf as it is leave PPUs out of it, dont touch what they do to tanks at all becuase without a PPU around and no PSI you cant even cst spy1 to help agl with the armor agl nerf.
More HC weapons, dev and rav were nice but added a long time ago and need more ray and gat firein weapons.
Need to have a look at MC and the fact that some times your hitting runners and for no damge when they are running.
Armor, need con armor, like a whole new class like xray and poison armor (for example).
• Completely remove Psi from the GenTanks and provide them with additional forms of healing like tank-only “super” medkits.
- Love it. Medkits heal back 10-15 per tick instead of the current TL3 heal!
• Add more weapons fitting the tank, with increased effects like knockback.
Knockback like the nailgun? I hate that thing... but moderate knockback from a rocket explosion or something would make sense.
• After fixing armor and resistances, make it possible for the tank to reach high damage reduction values without Psi support through armor and high resist skills. In return, we are looking into the possibility to make PPU spells less effective on tanks.
After reading the description posted above this, it's really sad how the tank really ISN'T a damage sponge like it's listed to be. Spies easily kill them, PEs even easier, and APUs usually win too... at least in 1v1.
Tanks need a slower overall runspeed (they should never be able to outrun a spy, and be neck-to-neck with the PE), but they need their movement speed with cannons upped. If the weapon is AoE, sure, turn them into a big slow turret - but if they have a regular single-attack weapon out, they should be able to move around faster than they do now.
Also - I'd like to see a synergy between CON and M-C... where adding points (points added, not drugs or implants or armor) to Melee would add to a players health or resistances. The price for going melee and requiring to get right up to the enemy should get a bit of reinforcement.
Perhap re-raising the idea of artillery would be good here. High-damage, high range, large AoE weapons, that when drawn reduce tanks to extremely slow/nil runspeed. Create a high int-req or spy-only "target painter" that can be used to aim the fire from the tanks weapon, or they can aim it themselves. Seems to suit Thanatos's description for what HC tanks should be doing.
Basically like a Flail or modern Tech-Trebuchet weapon that would completely remove the Tank's ability to move while drawn, but would let you hit, say the tower north of DRT, from the DRT GR (if it were a clear, arc'd shot).
The effect you get when playing HC tank, the 'slowdown' should be rmoved, or at least lessened.
They should resist better then a 'offensive PE' in terms of solo.
New medkits is a bad idea.Intoduce a CON value (based on CON lvs) that naturaly heals the tank. (tl3 or tl10 + medkit + natural heal = around 10 hp/tick)
Armor that only tanks could use (with STR requisition out of reach for PE) should be in game. Myabe re-intoduce Zargeus belt of Protection.
A defensive PE would still be tougher because of the heal and SD.Mainly because of its healing abilty.
Tanks should get the same effect from PPU buffs.APUs should really be weaks compared to tanks, even with PPU buffs.
As for weapons, the actual single target weapons are nice, altough the small clips sucks (CS,RAV) or maybe they should do more damage.
CS/RAV should be a weapon that even a PPU buffed APU should fear.
Ultimately, a skilled tank should be able to take out a lesser skilled APU/PPU, or at least the APU in it, and then prevent a rezz.
Plz introduce mortar/high end grenade launcher.
Incendiary grenades would be great, or any type of grenades that would be viable for PvP.
(put a 100+STR requesition on them, to prevent newbies from using them with drugs for lving purposes.)
The Freedom grenade should do damage close to a KAMI KK 400 drone.
Give the grenades abilty to be cooked. (death frags anyone ?)
Apocalypsox
17-03-06, 19:29
As for FNs idea above- i say increase the HP limit from that around 600- to around 750 or so for Melee users (just an idea) as he said they have to get up close and personal with an enemy, so they need a bonus.
Another weapon effect:
If a tank caps the damage on a weapon, it should get a very small % change to break through a shelter or deflector. Say a capped CS is fired at a buffed PPU 12 times (3 bursts)... of those 12, maybe 1 or 2 do damage as if there was no shelter due to a bonus for having a capped weapon.
This could potentially make non-rares viable in PvP, and maybe even preferred...
A bit of thinking has revelead this genius to me.
Remove tank psi and give to int = Op Hacking TAnks!
Finally, your tank is as viable as a monk at an op fight, because they can fight and hack, just like all those APU/PPU teams can!
From another post (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=132202) - I basically wanted to say I think self-regen should be a skill players can spec for with a governing skill of CON, giving Tanks higher-self gen than other classes. That could be your 'super medkit'...
= CONSTITUTION AND NATURAL RECOVERY =
In this order, what SHOULD they all have in common? Constitution. The Tank should have the highest, as he does, the PEs second, and the Monks and Spies should be tied for third, both compensating with their Constitutional-shortcomings via PSI and Technology, respectively. So the initial damage is pretty easy to see and compute... however, when they recover:
The Tank should bounce back relatively fast. Even without a heal, he should be regenerating his HP faster than any other class. Each class should then follow suit with regard to natural regeneration. Of course they all have their compensations, but their base regen should be set in stone regardless. I'd like to see self-regeneration time based on Constitution. For every 10 points of CON you have, 1 point of HP is healed back per tick. In this scenario, a Tank would heal back 100 HP on his own in 10 seconds IF his CON is 100-109. However a PE would only heal back 60 points over 10 seconds with 'capped' CON. And the Spy and Monk would trail behind at 4 points per tick. Then monks with their slowest heal would have PSI heal to compensate, Spies would have the low PSI Heal + Medkits + Stealth, and PEs would have a little of all of the worlds, as intended.
Alternatively, a new STR skill could be added (since it's the most lacking of the 5) called Regeneration. Or maybe it's a CON skill, but I'd rather see it in STR for the sheer fact that it would be the target of Tanks without forcing other characters to spec it. The skill would simply be a minor modifier or addition on this regneration ability. So a 100 CON tank with 50 points in Regeneration might heal up 15 points per tick instead of 10. 1 extra point per 10 Regen points. So a tank *could* heal 20 per tick, which would be sexy... but his damage output, force resist, or transport, would be pretty heavily nerfed. See the '= WEAPONS: DAMAGE, FREQUENCY, ETC =' section below before you freak out and think this will make tanks overly unbalanced.
Totally agree with the main idea, but it should not be skilled.
It should be given to all tanks and relative to CON.
Potential changes:
• Completely remove Psi from the GenTanks and provide them with additional forms of healing like tank-only “super” medkits.
• Add more weapons fitting the tank, with increased effects like knockback.
• After fixing armor and resistances, make it possible for the tank to reach high damage reduction values without Psi support through armor and high resist skills. In return, we are looking into the possibility to make PPU spells less effective on tanks. I like them all, increased effects on weapons sounds good too
Stats:
Potential changes:
• Completely remove Psi from the GenTanks and provide them with additional forms of healing like tank-only “super” medkits.
• Add more weapons fitting the tank, with increased effects like knockback.
• After fixing armor and resistances, make it possible for the tank to reach high damage reduction values without Psi support through armor and high resist skills. In return, we are looking into the possibility to make PPU spells less effective on tanks.
Like the look of these changes, exactly how I think a Gentank would be, PPU spells effectiveness would really have to be cut down on the tank though.
a tank does not need health anywhere above 500 on the health picture you could put them 10 lvls lost from psi into a new lvl which could be called genpacks (genpacks could be the super medkits for tanks but have lvl reqs on them so at lvl 10 u can use the highest one and perhaps they could have stack removers on them so u can get lvl 1 to 10 normal which gives a good amount of hlt back then u could have genpack poison that would remove 30% of stacks you could have fire genpacks aswell but if u use to many of the stack genpacks you get drug flash so it helps to balance the advantage of the packs.
Oh yeah - give tanks the ability to achieve *** while you're at it ;)
The real Fafnir
18-03-06, 03:18
A bit of thinking has revelead this genius to me.
Remove tank psi and give to int = Op Hacking TAnks!
Finally, your tank is as viable as a monk at an op fight, because they can fight and hack, just like all those APU/PPU teams can!
atm it's no problem for a melee tank to put all points to hck and then he needs only a drug and a spybuff 3 to hack 1st or 2nd step of an op without problems. (if i remember right the tank will get about 110 hck with skill + drug + buff)
heh, i see alot more poking Melee tanks about to arrive, without having to have any psi use,
also Melee tanks could warbot easily,
Apocalypsox
18-03-06, 04:35
Hah i didnt think about that. No PSI = no need for PSI use...i smell another Era of Tank-o-Cron (possibly)
but i still think Spy-O-Cron is coming...
What the GenTank lacks in psi(heals) and Gadgets, he gets it in superpowered guns, but guns that can shoot all the available damage types, just like a hybrid will be able to do.
No small gadgets, but ability to gun and man vehicles, turrets and other weaponry
As for FNs idea above- i say increase the HP limit from that around 600- to around 750 or so for Melee users (just an idea) as he said they have to get up close and personal with an enemy, so they need a bonus.
HC tank vs MC tank and the MC will win or come very close, if you give the MC's more health than a HC then your asking to over power them, and their wont be any HC tanks cos they'll all go MC.
turbineS-line
18-03-06, 11:49
Tanks are the alpha-omega damage dealers. They are dumb, and they can't use PSI well. I suggest a high damage output, and high resist, but they're designed specifically for combat, and nothing more. They DO need to heal themselves with advanced medkits, and still be the backbone of any OP War, and that's why I suggest against the "medium-high" attack rate with direct fire weapons, and straight "high" attack rate with their cannons. Tanks move very slow with a heavy weapon out, which needs to be cut back a bit, but to give the slowdown a reason of being, the damage output needs to be high.
Basically, this is how it works:
TANK = Backbone of OP wars.
APU = The monk version of the tank, but are very fragile. Basically, a tank without CON.
If a tank's fire is only "medium-high," and the APU is always using a capped HL, that should be considered a "VERY high" damage outpit, everyone will still cling to using an APU for OP war backbones. An APU and a Tank should make the user think "Hrm. Shit. An APU would be nice, and so would a tank.. I can't decide!" in place of "Oh, shit. I've got to go with a monk to op war."
Stats:
STR 100
CON 100
DEX 75
INT 25
PSI 00
First it has to be asked, how would those 10 stat points be shifted on already created characters? since 5 tank psi levels is alot less XP than 5 top end tank DEX levels.
Anyway, here's a possibility for the location of that troublesom 10 stat points, with out the need for psi use tanks and especially melee tanks have a lot more points to start throwing around meaning we could see some of the service tradeskillers (Hacker, Poker, ) being mainly tanks if the entire 10 stat points went to just INT plus with the current line up they'd be able to get a much better assortment of belts upping their armour further.
Having 25 INT and then the other 5 heading off to DEX making it 75 is a way to limit the mass of free points (melee)tanks would recieve.
Initial Class Description:
„The GenTank is a product of the Ceres Wars. He is particularly robust and strong and was bred as a genetically engineered soldier. After the war was over, the human tanks were left to themselves for ‘humanitarian reasons’ rather than being destroyed. Due to the fact that the original genetic blueprint did not call for any particular emotional or intellectual prowess, [B]a GenTank cannot develop any Psi skills. This emotionally disturbed individual is extremely aggressive and talented in the use of all kinds of weapons.”
The above changes to Tank's stat points would not allow the "buff PE" to happen but still allow for Pistol Tanks to roam freely and quite effectivly using the lower and none rare pistols in exchange for more resistance and armour, a new proffession could be added to the mix (Bodyguard?) for pistol tanks as their high natural resistance (Some of the very high armour would require the other two proffesions i assume) coupled with a clean quick (quick in terms fo running fire too) moderate damage output would be a different style of play to what we see today and also allows for tanks to have more viable options ahead of them instead of just Melee or Heavy combat.
Potential changes:
• Completely remove Psi from the GenTanks and provide them with additional forms of healing like tank-only “super” medkits.
I'd like to see this aslong as a balanced and effective alternative is provided and has no other complications meaning its as clean cut to use as a psi heal with no additional time requirements.
• Add more weapons fitting the tank, with increased effects like knockback.
Huge knockback could be a very bad thing, especially coupled with the current netcode issues as all maner of things could then happen with people being pushed around.
However i'd like to see higher level grenade launchers and proper grenades made viable with good damage without the weird really high movement restriction. Allowing all tanks (Melee, Heavy etc) to use them would also be good as it would be interesting to have melee tanks use them to form a tactical advantage however the really high damage should be restricted to the "soldier" class so only heavy tanks get to play with them.
More AoE effects would also be good giving tanks some DoT AoE like the monks do, perhaps with some sort of inferno projectiles which sets fire to the ground APU barrel style ;) or even a tank only AoE damage..... Xray. The same princible as the 'inferno' projectiles but it would radiate the area giving those in it direct Xray damage like in energy barrels and perhaps weaker Xray stacks like how fire barrels work.
• After fixing armor and resistances, make it possible for the tank to reach high damage reduction values without Psi support through armor and high resist skills. In return, we are looking into the possibility to make PPU spells less effective on tanks.
Would be nice to see tanks not needing a PPU plus im not sure on making ppu spells less effective but if it does happen their level of defence with their less effective spells (like S/D) should still be higher than the other classes with fully effective buffs even if just by a fraction.
The spells not being as effective also gives a reflection of tanks lack of psi abilities as the buffs from a monk dont work as well as they cannot be intune with the tanks natural psionic aura(sp?) as it does not exist.
I do like the ideas suggested by KK and their intention for the tank but it needs to be done delicatly so not to overpower the class which has seen dwindling use in the recent past and hasnt changed much at all to avoid overpowering the class.
EDIT: Oh and what FN said, *** tanks would be a cool sight to see.
EDIT2: "Tries to give what he said a form like the example" Aha!
Summary!
Tanks shouldn't be the fastest of the classes but still quite speedy with very little stamina loss.
Soldiers should be able to do pretty high damage from a reasonably safe range and absorb a hefty amount of damage, more than anyone else except the PPU, direct damage HC weapons should allow for some quite fast movement (faster than current) while the AoE weapons should effectivly make the tank a turret will little movement speed.
Beserkers should be the fastest variety of GenTank doing less damage than a soldier due to their higher rate of "fire" again taking more punishment than any other class. Defence should be a touch higher than a solider but not higher than the PPU.
Bodyguard proffession (or something similar) should be given to tanks to grant more variety in setups allowing the tanks to use one of their historical advantages (Being "talented in the use of all kinds of weapons.") allowing pistol tanks to be a strong possibility.
Bodyguards should be between Beserkers and Soliders in terms of speed with the same natural resistances but unable to use the highest armour even though they have the strength due to proffession choice, this higher defence than a PE limits their damage to that lower than a PE with their ability to use only the none rare pistols with moderate damage, so lower damage overall but more "up time" thanks to their resistances. Plus Bodyguards would be able to fire on the move as run speed wouldn't get a very high hit so they'd be more effective in a chase than a HC tank but less so than an MC tank due to the balance in speed, defence and offensive power.
Id like to see Tanks selfregenerating!
thats a good idea it would be inkeeping with tanks con and str to regen there hlt up but at what rate would it come back at and would it be viable when in a pvp situation perhaps it could be relative to the armour your wearing so if ur taking fire dmg and u got a mix off energy and fire armour on u get a 50% rate of the regen but if ur wearing full fire then u get the higher rate and no fire armour at all you get a small amount.
perhaps tanks could have new bone implants in nc aswell which could affect your hlt regen or even improve on the ones we got by upping there values.
the one thing i find is how much fire hurts on my tank but i have good fire resist when tanks should be strong against all dmg types.
Don’t change things just for the sake of changing. Current gentanks in game are basically as characters ok. A more diversified weapons are needed that’s clear. High level Gatling’s, heavy mortar-type weapons (with current vehicle bombs for example) Some versions of these weapons can of course be made heavy so that they can efficiently only be used at opfights or similar situations.
No need to make tanks generally slower with changing chars; equipment and different weapons is a much better way, then runners themselves can choose if the want a fast or slow tank etc. Tanks wouldn’t benefit shit from moving some STR or DEX to INT. Tanks don’t need to hack ops or poke, when others can do it so much better (its not like anyone uses/asks monks to carry stuff around...)
Why take the little PSI that they currently have and replace that with “super medikits”, if the new heal effect still will be like the current nerfed tl3 heal? For leveling low to mid tanks basic resist 1 & melee & a nerfed tl3 heal is good to have. Really no need to make it harder for tanks to level, is there..?
Melee tanks will probably continue to suffer from netcode-type problems and few think H-C tanks are too powerful in current state either. A balance in relation to other classes is the key to keep this class alive.
And yeah, tanks most defiantly should deserve to be able to get that third star…
Dribble Joy
18-03-06, 19:34
Knockback is bad thing, as would other nasties like a drug flash inducing melee weapon. It would be para allover again.
i very much like the idea of no psi(heal) for gentank, but im not sure about the new medkit idea (you know, whats the difference?)..
mabye he should absorb more damage naturally (class feature), and/or regenerates health naturally at a faster rate.
the name of the game for the Gentank to reclaim fun and versatility will be more weapons and ability to man turrets/mortars, exactly how the spy will be able to use gadgets instead of firepower to enforce his role.
If KK has the ability to program those items ingame (it's difficult) then the game will rock in diversity
Brainstorm some gadgets for the spy and some weapons for the tank and start making them keeping the ballance ofcourse
Apocalypsox
19-03-06, 07:56
Personally i think the spies should have more of a Stealth Suit type thing- for players like Tradeskillers that dont like having to restealth all the time. Make it so if you fire a gun you become completely visible for a few seconds- then you turn back invisable.
Running makes you barely transparent. Walking makes you fairly invisable and standing completely still makes you disappear.
This would be great for rifle spies that like to use "Hit and Run" tactics as they are designed.
I always thought that the GenTank was this big nasty dude who could gun any vehicle and the like, so instead of everyone wanting a PPU plug, how about if spies with construction could make field-turrets, turrets which could be manned by the gentanks annd then the spy could repair the turret with nanites.
Actually i'd just love to see more different class posibilities for leveling instead of either getting a Rhino team or a PPU plug.
On the topic about Tanks not having any PSI abilities and instead getting a better medkit: simply love the idea, this would also fuel the whole "Different classes in a team" benefit, since any other class can use PSI he wouldnt have to count on a PPU for buffs but maybe a PE.
- Nap
Look at it like this
10PSI gives a tank Deflector, TL3/10 Heal (if they want tl10), Basic resist 1, MC/HC1, and spy 1.
Removing that means
-19 Health
-15 Force Resist
-5 Hc/Mc
-6 Agility
-4 End
-5 Hack.
And -**% Pierce/Force resistance from def.
+10 Int gives what? - Tank trade skiller? Op Hacking MC tanks?
One what to stop that would be up the wpl requirement, and make MC need weapon lore.
OR
Put the points into CON (But i hate that idea).
So the only place the 10points can go IS int, if it goes into dex you get pistol welding druggie tanks or sniper rifle tanks, (Thats a BAD IDEA and you know it)
So the only real awnser is to put it into int, make mc need wpl, and up the hc requirement for wpl.
But then you have the issue of no def, lower health, agil, hack, and force resist. I've killed apu's when their on their own, I have a much harder time killing a bloody hc pe. Why? Because of shelter, it gives a great deal of defensive bonuses. The only way to compensate for the lose of psi would be for tank implants such as marine, and herc to have +5 health and +5 force. Or once since they'll beable to use the heavy energy belt, giving them some more resist Or play around with deflector belts and lower the requirements a bit.
As for weapons READ What KK say, they want tanks to be somewhat 40%/60% Off/Def. More defensive less offensive. I'm not sure if I agree with that since cannons are much more powerful then a pistol but if they decide to make a judge out damage a CS who am i to argue?
But I would suggest if they remove psi and up tank defenses to remove the athletics nerf from hc pa, so hc tanks can wear it. other wise just remove it from the game!
What about letting tanks run with their cannon? or is weight of the gun to big a factor
Lol, so far I have read PE's getting tougher, Spies are weaklings and need alot of help, monks are frail.
Lets see, Oh yes the truth, PE's , Spies and Monks can nearly reach the hit points of a tank. And some one suggested lowering the tanks HP to 500, hmm some how that just doesnt help a tank now does it. When the other classes can easily reach 400 hp and more. Tanks dont have any advantage on HP, so lets not try fooling every one into believing they do.
I have seen ego over ride the truth, tanks dont deal more dmg. All the others classes deal more dmg then a tank. Whether or not the dmg is dealt out in small amounts rapidly or large amounts rapdily. Seeing is believing, and I have seen enough fights to know tanks get owned, the smarter tanks last longer because they zone.
Tanks are fast? The other classes leaves a tank standing in the dust. Unlike the other classes, tanks lose ath and agl, in one form or another. whether through his pa's or the fact his weapons and ammo out wieghs any other classes by far. And we're talking about slowing him down even more?
Lol, raise his int? This is a joke right? I mean we are joking here right? What is there to help a tank fight in int? Wow a trade skilling tank, omg fear the trade skilling tank, lest you die, lol. Lets get real, and stop smoke screening. Fear the poking pvping tank, lol. Enough of the nonsense it is a joke.
You take away a tanks psi, and you cripple the tank even more then he already is crippled, no monk support means tank dies even faster. HP isnt even a consideration, since all the other classes can nearly reach a tanks HP, so whats so special there, nothing.
Lets stop the deception, face it there are less tanks in ops wars and sync line battles, and we all know why. Tanks dealing more dmg then the other classes? Thats a good one to laugh at. Oh how many times I have seen on help, other classes bragging about "owning " tank, and why shouldnt they? After all they have nearly the same HP of a tank, and resist, armor, and weapons that deal more dmg faster, and they have a boat load of psi ability a tank doesnt have. The best tank set ups I have seen, doesnt even stop the tank from an incestant healing and med kitting routine and ducking to heal, so you dont get hit any more for a few seconds or more.
What I do see posted here and on other class post, is a fear of the tank becomming what a tank really should be, a force to be reckon with on the battle field. I mean Private eye, what exactly is a PE? A wanna be soldier or spy, that is a civilian, yes a civilian. No specialised training, just a civlian trying to play a soldier, or a spy, because they didnt have what it took to be a soldier, they didnt meet the reqs to be any one of these.
So their best tactics in a combative arena is the good old hit and run tactic, a head on confrontation means instant death for them. Yet we all know that isnt the case here. But you have PE's out healing out manvuevering and out gunning a tank in a head on battle.
Tanks are joke, they have 100 str and 100 con, oh wow they are tough, lol. What subskills are in str and con? I have seen so many new players get a shock of their lives when they see a tank drop, because he was out manuevered and out gunned and out resist, and out healed by other classes. Yet the story line eludes to them being awesome in battles, after all they are gentanks, geneticaly engineered for battles, geneticaly engineered to have no rivals on the battle field.
You tell us that the way to test our weapons true dmg value is to attack a 50/50 mob. Yet rifles have double or more dmg on those mobs, and even so do pistols, then the weapons a tank has. Oh thats right I forgot the aoe weapons, lol. Show me an op war or even a sync war, where a tank can use an aoe weapon effectively and without hurting himself with it, also, thus taking more dmg, since he is getting shot at by the enemy as well.
The truth is, no one wants to tell the truth.
Look at it like this
10PSI gives a tank Deflector, TL3/10 Heal (if they want tl10), Basic resist 1, MC/HC1, and spy 1.
Removing that means
-19 Health
-15 Force Resist
-5 Hc/Mc
-6 Agility
-4 End
-5 Hack.
And -**% Pierce/Force resistance from def.
+10 Int gives what? - Tank trade skiller? Op Hacking MC tanks?
One what to stop that would be up the wpl requirement, and make MC need weapon lore.
OR
Put the points into CON (But i hate that idea).
So the only place the 10points can go IS int, if it goes into dex you get pistol welding druggie tanks or sniper rifle tanks, (Thats a BAD IDEA and you know it)
So the only real awnser is to put it into int, make mc need wpl, and up the hc requirement for wpl.
But then you have the issue of no def, lower health, agil, hack, and force resist. I've killed apu's when their on their own, I have a much harder time killing a bloody hc pe. Why? Because of shelter, it gives a great deal of defensive bonuses. The only way to compensate for the lose of psi would be for tank implants such as marine, and herc to have +5 health and +5 force. Or once since they'll beable to use the heavy energy belt, giving them some more resist Or play around with deflector belts and lower the requirements a bit.
As for weapons READ What KK say, they want tanks to be somewhat 40%/60% Off/Def. More defensive less offensive. I'm not sure if I agree with that since cannons are much more powerful then a pistol but if they decide to make a judge out damage a CS who am i to argue?
But I would suggest if they remove psi and up tank defenses to remove the athletics nerf from hc pa, so hc tanks can wear it. other wise just remove it from the game!
No, you're simply wrong here. Remove psi from tanks, put the point into int. Then you get two things. One is op-hacking HC Tanks (melee tanks can op hack with current levels of int as soon as they dont have to worry about PSU any more.
The other and more critical thing you get is tanks that are balanced without psi (ohnoz! they lose a small amount of bonii from psi! - we replace that by buffing the tanks in other ways, what do you think this whole balancing question is about?). Because tanks have no inherrent psi, they are now starting from the same point as an APU. Bring PPUs along,and tanks gain from a PPU just as much as APUs do. They can hack just like APUs too. Hey presto, we have in one fell swoop removed monk-o-cron if we do this right. Moreover, we are making this cyber-punk game less dominate by psi, surely something that will make the game feel much better.
Potential changes:
• Completely remove Psi from the GenTanks and provide them with additional forms of healing like tank-only “super” medkits.
• Add more weapons fitting the tank, with increased effects like knockback.
• After fixing armor and resistances, make it possible for the tank to reach high damage reduction values without Psi support through armor and high resist skills. In return, we are looking into the possibility to make PPU spells less effective on tanks.
remove of psi isnt bad. instead of super medkits rename implant to medic or something to have a close range heal ability for Tanks and spy.
dont forget arc fireing weapons. semi mobile weapons, ie the gat turret for manual use by tanks wolld be cool.
why only limit that to PPU spells ?
€:
a lot of ppl forget that KK think about Profession requirements on items. it would remove a lot of fears on the poking tank, op hacking tank or tank master constructors.
Stats:
STR 100
CON 100
DEX 70
INT 20
PSI 10
Available Professions:
• Soldier
• Berserker
Initial Class Description:
„The GenTank is a product of the Ceres Wars. He is particularly robust and strong and was bred as a genetically engineered soldier. After the war was over, the human tanks were left to themselves for ‘humanitarian reasons’ rather than being destroyed. Due to the fact that the original genetic blueprint did not call for any particular emotional or intellectual prowess, a GenTank cannot develop any Psi skills. This emotionally disturbed individual is extremely aggressive and talented in the use of all kinds of weapons.”
How we see the GenTank:
A frontline fighter able to take an exceptional amount of punishment without relying on a support class. High CON allows for high health and resistance values.
Due to high STR and fairly high DEX, GenTanks are able to use most types of weapons. They should focus on melee weapons or cannons, the types they are most proficient with.
Melee should produce a fairly high damage output, while the tanks using their cannons from the back row should do medium to high damage across a large area (AoE) and moderately high direct damage. They should not the best damage dealers due to their survival potential, but still do a decent amount of damage
As originally intended, we’d like to see the GenTanks without any form of Psi capability. New types of medical equipment would help them stay alive without relying on Psi.
Potential changes:
• Completely remove Psi from the GenTanks and provide them with additional forms of healing like tank-only “super” medkits.
• Add more weapons fitting the tank, with increased effects like knockback.
• After fixing armor and resistances, make it possible for the tank to reach high damage reduction values without Psi support through armor and high resist skills. In return, we are looking into the possibility to make PPU spells less effective on tanks.
Ideas sound great to me, but I think knockback may be overkill. I could be wrong dependinn on what the other classes are getting. probly a +10 int increase for out loss of psi would be good as well.
Lol, so far I have read PE's getting tougher, Spies are weaklings and need alot of help, monks are frail.
Lets see, Oh yes the truth, PE's , Spies and Monks can nearly reach the hit points of a tank. And some one suggested lowering the tanks HP to 500, hmm some how that just doesnt help a tank now does it. When the other classes can easily reach 400 hp and more. Tanks dont have any advantage on HP, so lets not try fooling every one into believing they do.
I have seen ego over ride the truth, tanks dont deal more dmg. All the others classes deal more dmg then a tank. Whether or not the dmg is dealt out in small amounts rapidly or large amounts rapdily. Seeing is believing, and I have seen enough fights to know tanks get owned, the smarter tanks last longer because they zone.
Tanks are fast? The other classes leaves a tank standing in the dust. Unlike the other classes, tanks lose ath and agl, in one form or another. whether through his pa's or the fact his weapons and ammo out wieghs any other classes by far. And we're talking about slowing him down even more?
Lol, raise his int? This is a joke right? I mean we are joking here right? What is there to help a tank fight in int? Wow a trade skilling tank, omg fear the trade skilling tank, lest you die, lol. Lets get real, and stop smoke screening. Fear the poking pvping tank, lol. Enough of the nonsense it is a joke.
You take away a tanks psi, and you cripple the tank even more then he already is crippled, no monk support means tank dies even faster. HP isnt even a consideration, since all the other classes can nearly reach a tanks HP, so whats so special there, nothing.
Lets stop the deception, face it there are less tanks in ops wars and sync line battles, and we all know why. Tanks dealing more dmg then the other classes? Thats a good one to laugh at. Oh how many times I have seen on help, other classes bragging about "owning " tank, and why shouldnt they? After all they have nearly the same HP of a tank, and resist, armor, and weapons that deal more dmg faster, and they have a boat load of psi ability a tank doesnt have. The best tank set ups I have seen, doesnt even stop the tank from an incestant healing and med kitting routine and ducking to heal, so you dont get hit any more for a few seconds or more.
What I do see posted here and on other class post, is a fear of the tank becomming what a tank really should be, a force to be reckon with on the battle field. I mean Private eye, what exactly is a PE? A wanna be soldier or spy, that is a civilian, yes a civilian. No specialised training, just a civlian trying to play a soldier, or a spy, because they didnt have what it took to be a soldier, they didnt meet the reqs to be any one of these.
So their best tactics in a combative arena is the good old hit and run tactic, a head on confrontation means instant death for them. Yet we all know that isnt the case here. But you have PE's out healing out manvuevering and out gunning a tank in a head on battle.
Tanks are joke, they have 100 str and 100 con, oh wow they are tough, lol. What subskills are in str and con? I have seen so many new players get a shock of their lives when they see a tank drop, because he was out manuevered and out gunned and out resist, and out healed by other classes. Yet the story line eludes to them being awesome in battles, after all they are gentanks, geneticaly engineered for battles, geneticaly engineered to have no rivals on the battle field.
You tell us that the way to test our weapons true dmg value is to attack a 50/50 mob. Yet rifles have double or more dmg on those mobs, and even so do pistols, then the weapons a tank has. Oh thats right I forgot the aoe weapons, lol. Show me an op war or even a sync war, where a tank can use an aoe weapon effectively and without hurting himself with it, also, thus taking more dmg, since he is getting shot at by the enemy as well.
The truth is, no one wants to tell the truth.#
I'm sorry but none of your posts have really made any sense, nor do they have a point. It just seems like you're grilling points people have made (and even points no one has made !) My complaining doesn't really help but if you don't have anything constructive to say in these forums - sod off.
This isn't a flame, I'm just tired of you spamming each thread with the same unhelpful rubbish.
[edit]
Just to add something useful to this post -
We could make some (or all) turrets mountable, not sure whether this would be a good or bad thing for opwars since it will give tanks something to do, but it would also allow ninja hacking easier if all turrets were made mountable and not AI controlled.
Not to be argumental, but I make a very good point. Gimping a tank is a good thing? When the other classes already have it almost beaten hands down. Talking about helping a tank by giving him more int, that really doesnt mean much to him , but a melee, in a battle. Oh I am making a point, as for me to "sod off", I have a right to my opinions. And as I understand it, this is a post about rebalencing or to not rebalence.
But this isnt a thread about attacking any one who post now is it.
Not to be argumental, but I make a very good point. Gimping a tank is a good thing? When the other classes already have it almost beaten hands down. Talking about helping a tank by giving him more int, that really doesnt mean much to him , but a melee, in a battle. Oh I am making a point, as for me to "sod off", I have a right to my opinions. And as I understand it, this is a post about rebalencing or to not rebalence.
But this isnt a thread about attacking any one who post now is it.
You're an idiot.
Sorry I had to say it.
Now for my actual point:
No one is talking about gimping tanks, it has already been said that con is going to be reworked to tanks can be the dmg spounges in combat they were ment by kk to be. Whats the issue? I have seen a number of posts by you in various forums today, all of them are total trash and many don't even make sence.
Posting my opinions of a balanced/storyline fitting mainskill setup for each class.
Tank
Int 20 -> 27
Dex 70 -> 70
Str 100 -> 100
Con 100 -> 100
psi 20 -> 3
The tank with this skill setup would still be able to heal, although it would be a waste of time. the purpose of the 3 psi is for the deflector/basic 1 resistor that compliment a tanks description...
of course not all at the same time, but I'm not going to waste time on possible setups, these would just be the most commonly used.
tanks don't have 20 psi they have 10
Edit: I can't do math
3 psi is enough for a heal,
i appologize for the typo on 20 -> 3... but i still made the final stats balance out to 300 total.
Your ignorance bleeds through your words in these past few posts in these threads. Mainskill setups have ALOT to do with balancing. Of course it is not the only solution, but its one of the many steps towards complete balance.
wasnt it lvl4 to have enough psi power to cast a heal ?
Well, it says you need 16 PSI mana point thingme whatsits, but it won't cast until you have about 17-19. It will then just give you a few PSI mana point thingme whatsits to spare.
psu.... from the extra int...
glad everyone can think.
Lol, so far I have read PE's getting tougher, Spies are weaklings and need alot of help, monks are frail.
Lets see, Oh yes the truth, PE's , Spies and Monks can nearly reach the hit points of a tank. And some one suggested lowering the tanks HP to 500, hmm some how that just doesnt help a tank now does it. When the other classes can easily reach 400 hp and more. Tanks dont have any advantage on HP, so lets not try fooling every one into believing they do.
I have seen ego over ride the truth, tanks dont deal more dmg. All the others classes deal more dmg then a tank. Whether or not the dmg is dealt out in small amounts rapidly or large amounts rapdily. Seeing is believing, and I have seen enough fights to know tanks get owned, the smarter tanks last longer because they zone.
Tanks are fast? The other classes leaves a tank standing in the dust. Unlike the other classes, tanks lose ath and agl, in one form or another. whether through his pa's or the fact his weapons and ammo out wieghs any other classes by far. And we're talking about slowing him down even more?
Lol, raise his int? This is a joke right? I mean we are joking here right? What is there to help a tank fight in int? Wow a trade skilling tank, omg fear the trade skilling tank, lest you die, lol. Lets get real, and stop smoke screening. Fear the poking pvping tank, lol. Enough of the nonsense it is a joke.
You take away a tanks psi, and you cripple the tank even more then he already is crippled, no monk support means tank dies even faster. HP isnt even a consideration, since all the other classes can nearly reach a tanks HP, so whats so special there, nothing.
Lets stop the deception, face it there are less tanks in ops wars and sync line battles, and we all know why. Tanks dealing more dmg then the other classes? Thats a good one to laugh at. Oh how many times I have seen on help, other classes bragging about "owning " tank, and why shouldnt they? After all they have nearly the same HP of a tank, and resist, armor, and weapons that deal more dmg faster, and they have a boat load of psi ability a tank doesnt have. The best tank set ups I have seen, doesnt even stop the tank from an incestant healing and med kitting routine and ducking to heal, so you dont get hit any more for a few seconds or more.
What I do see posted here and on other class post, is a fear of the tank becomming what a tank really should be, a force to be reckon with on the battle field. I mean Private eye, what exactly is a PE? A wanna be soldier or spy, that is a civilian, yes a civilian. No specialised training, just a civlian trying to play a soldier, or a spy, because they didnt have what it took to be a soldier, they didnt meet the reqs to be any one of these.
So their best tactics in a combative arena is the good old hit and run tactic, a head on confrontation means instant death for them. Yet we all know that isnt the case here. But you have PE's out healing out manvuevering and out gunning a tank in a head on battle.
Tanks are joke, they have 100 str and 100 con, oh wow they are tough, lol. What subskills are in str and con? I have seen so many new players get a shock of their lives when they see a tank drop, because he was out manuevered and out gunned and out resist, and out healed by other classes. Yet the story line eludes to them being awesome in battles, after all they are gentanks, geneticaly engineered for battles, geneticaly engineered to have no rivals on the battle field.
You tell us that the way to test our weapons true dmg value is to attack a 50/50 mob. Yet rifles have double or more dmg on those mobs, and even so do pistols, then the weapons a tank has. Oh thats right I forgot the aoe weapons, lol. Show me an op war or even a sync war, where a tank can use an aoe weapon effectively and without hurting himself with it, also, thus taking more dmg, since he is getting shot at by the enemy as well.
The truth is, no one wants to tell the truth.
/SIGNED
yes im a tank but why should i get killed so easily against PE/SPY/APU im not the best at PvP i dont deny it but hell 1v1 Tank/Pe the PE should drop same for spy, but in theory an APU could kill a tank.....why? cuz they did "make" them so to speak right?
psu.... from the extra int...
glad everyone can think.
so i reduce psi to the absolut minimum to put my int points in psu and get a shit heal in return ?
i thik we should go withe the super medpacks that use medical sunstances to bild and create work for all the other ppl ingame.
so i reduce psi to the absolut minimum to put my int points in psu and get a shit heal in return ?
i thik we should go withe the super medpacks that use medical sunstances to bild and create work for all the other ppl ingame.
Totally agreed.
Safunte what the hell are you snorting?
i'm snorting the thing that says that i want super medkits, but i still want basic1/tl3 defl.
the point in reducing the psi is so that it makes heal pointless to use, but it still doesn't change the basic1.
i'm snorting the thing that says that i want super medkits, but i still want basic1/tl3 defl.
the point in reducing the psi is so that it makes heal pointless to use, but it still doesn't change the basic1.
umm, they already said they are tweaking con, after the fix tanks won't need the basic 1 for there setups. The whole idea is tanks are stupid and can't use psi, so they use supermedkits and their con.
APPARENTLY I cant break through your thick shell of arrogance.
So i'll just hope people can understand my suggestions on the same level that i'm looking at them from.
You seem to think that a BR1 will actually be worth it after these adjustments.
I totally agree tanks should get better medkist instead of psi. I hate tanks having PSI. I hate PSI dependance in pvp.. Hell, if i had things my way I'd delete monks and make another form of PSI and call it TECH (Basically what FN has been saying all this time, but to a more extreme level.)
Good thing it's not up to me..
[edit]
Don't pull the 'you're arrogant/ignorant/narrowminded, me and my ideas are therefore more supreme than you and yours.' bullshit here please. Before this just gets reduced to flaming when we could actually make something of this thread where the ideas on these threads are being watched.
Thank you for your co-operation.
i think some are just nuts.. tanks really aren't off balance right now with apus, pe's, spies 1vs1. the fact you don't see many anymore doesn't mean much... theres no reason to play them, theres no reason to play anything but monks..
they could use changes along with the other classes, something to make them different from other classes but they really dont need much of a boost...
Remember, a class is only as good as the person playing it.
Posting my opinions of a balanced/storyline fitting mainskill setup for each class.
Tank
Int 20 -> 27
Dex 70 -> 70
Str 100 -> 100
Con 100 -> 100
psi 10 -> 3
The tank with this skill setup would still be able to heal, although it would be a waste of time. the purpose of the 3 psi is for the deflector/basic 1 resistor that compliment a tanks description...
of course not all at the same time, but I'm not going to waste time on possible setups, these would just be the most commonly used.
Just going out on a limb but 3? Thats not even worth it. You'd fail in casting so much for lack of PPW
Although
INT 20 > 30
PSI 10 > 0
would help - mostly in combat. Outside of that I cant see a "good" reason to change the current level setup
I havent play'd tank in awhile... but dont rifles ( in general ) for that given weapon type and TL do more damage then pistols and Cannons for that given type do more then Rifles? so why dont tanks ever get ***80 - 90/ Rank ? well if they do they do it aaalloottt slower
It might be that my idea is rather utopical, but i personally would suggest to increase the number of "toys" for the tank. My focus would be on grenades.
First of all, grenades in general would need to be changed in the way of using them. Currently, each grenade needs one slot in the belt and when used, the belt is empty. Using grenades is very slow and tedious with this, especially since people neither have several belt slots available nor have the time to restock the belt in the middle of combat. An easy fix would be to allow to put a stack of 10 grenades or so into the belt, the better way would be that when a grenade is used from the belt and there is the same kind of grenade in the inventory, the grenade actually is simply taken from the inventory. Thus the belt slot would only go empty when the last grenade is used up.
Anyways, this is just basic functionality which would be essential to make grenades useable, now i want to discuss the "toy"-factor of grenades. Right now, the only thing a tank can do is: damage. He might have several kinds of damage at hand, but it's still always damage, which in the end is a rather limiting role. Instead, i would suggest to create grenades with various combat effects:
- the incendiary grenade.
Effect: When exploding, it splashes the area with some inflamable material and sets it's surrounding on fire. Everything in range or moving into this area is also set on fire and takes appropriate damage.
PvE-use: damage. NPCs are not smart enough to react on this, so they will walk into it and burn.
PvP-use: damage and tactical blockade of areas
- aerosol grenade
Effect: A substance is burned, creating damage in the AOE while using up all Oxygen. Extinguishes fire in the area.
PvE-use: damage again.
PvP-use: damage and extinguishing fire. This means, clearing the path again.
- alternatively: the foam grenade
Effect: splashes the area with some unstable foam. It extinguishes fire but only lasts for a short time.
PvE-use: targets in the area get slowed down a bit.
PvP-use: Flames in the area are extinguished (clearing the way which is blocked from an incendiary grenade), somewhat reducing movement speed in the target area for a short time.
- the shock grenade
Effect: disorientation of targets in the area of effect, minimal physical impact.
PvE-use: little damage. Attackspeed and accuracy of NPCs in the area of effect are noticeably reduced. Movement of NPCs get even more erratic than it already now is. (If that is possible, that is.)
PvP-use: little damage. Values for weaponlore and psi-use are strongly reduced for a short while, movement is somewhat hampered by random movement. (Like we already now know from drug flashes, you press the forward key and sometimes run to the side or even backwards instead.)
- the flash grenade
Effect: blinding targets by burning up some substance.
PvE-use: very little damage, only close to the point of explosion. (Only targets right on the grenade when it blows up are affected.) Accuracy of NPCs is strongly reduced, they start to turn around even more stupid than they normally do.
PvP-use: very little damage, only close to the point of explosion. The screen gets whitened out for a short time (not by adjusting gamma, there are some "tools" to avoid that, but by creating an approprite overlay). Values for weaponlore and psi-use are noticeably reduced for a short while.
- the EMP grenade
Effect: creates a strong electromagnetic pulse when detonating.
PvE-use: no effect on purely organic NPCs. (no damage, nothing...) Desorientation (like on the shock grenade) on cyborgs, e.g. aggressors and so on. Targets which are purely machine, e.g. Warbots, are paralysed (no movement, no attack) for something like 5 seconds, then are disoriented for a while, too. Cyborgs take litte damage, pure machings good damage from this grenade.
PvP-use: Strong disturbance of sight. (Use the statics which already is known from drug flashes. Cyberware, like the display system, are affected by the EMP, after all.) Values for weaponlore and psi-use get reduced for a short time, active implants (everything but the bones) can be affected and stop working properly for something like 15 seconds. This does not mean, that implants are removed and need to be reimplanted, they just should not give their modifiers for a short time. (Since i know that some people will test around and look a the info screen while having such grenades thrown at them, it would be a nice bonus, if the list of modifiers would be replaced by the word "rebooting" in the info screen as long as the implant is disabled.)
To make sure that low-level tanks also have their fun, it would make sense to make these grenades in three XP-stages. (Just like with weapons already in place. Most weapons are available in the flavours "newbie", "normal", "expert" and "rare". Since grenades are getting used up, i would forget about the "rare" style, though.) To make sure that the bigger grenades make sense, compare the level of the NPC to the power of the grenade. If the level of the grenade is too low, it fails to affect the NPC. Players would have to use their resist values to avoid or reduce effects of grenades. (Fire resist vs. the incendiary grenade, resist force vs. aerosol grenades and shock grenades, energy resist vs. the flash grenade and x-ray vs. the EMP grenade.) The higher the resists, the shorter the effect, if the level of the grenade is too low, they don't do their effects at all.
This would give the tank some nice tactical options on the battlefield and would be much more fun to play, instead of having no other purpose than (taking and) inflicting damage.
Introduce a bash ability to tanks, 20hp a bash, 1 bash per 2 seconds :p
Sorry - I have to yell this!
There is NO NEED to develop a new medkit for tanks.
Simply add a rule that dictates how well a class responds to medkits. In order to remain reasonably ( not completely) competitive with heals, a tank would have to recieve one hell of a boost from medkits.
Because of this, medkit spam may become an issue. I propose a tick timer, or severe stamina drain, or simply just making them heavier. Please however, bear in mind, that by setting us down this road, a medpack will always cost more than a heal, Heals are free from your Psi pool, meds are not, this however should not to too much of an issue - provided the TL of medipacks is lowered, so any tank has the ability to recycle them without having to go out of his way to spec extra points.
In light of this I suggest the Psi Points we lose should be made available in Dex, to a reduced degree, or spread between Int and Dex to make the points up. I would prefer the Split option, givng the tank some barter ability instead ( he's big and rough - gimme stuff, or i'll beat ya!) with the option of speccing recycle without compromising existing setups. Should he choose not to recycle, Dex weapon/item TL's would need to be looked at to ensure he doesn't have access to anything he shouldn't have.
hell you give tanks more DEX they really could become Pistol users... easy. Juge postin Tanks :)
Medpacks based off CON level might take more coding and leave room for bugs but either or is fine with me: level 3 medpack or have medpacks in the game now work off CON/HP %
Meals heal pertty good if you can afford to keep a steady supply with thier one time use
hell you give tanks more DEX they really could become Pistol users... easy. Juge postin Tanks :)
For 20 Points in a PC skill? I think not.
Medpacks based off CON level might take more coding and leave room for bugs but either or is fine with me: level 3 medpack or have medpacks in the game now work off CON/HP %
Thats better than my class based idea, you can break the cookie cutter using con imps :)
Meals heal pertty good if you can afford to keep a steady supply with thier one time use
Much as I'd love a judge Packing tank, I think it'll be a long time coming :p
Much as I'd love a judge Packing tank, I think it'll be a long time coming :p
-----------Dexterity-----------
Current: 101 31
Skill: Pistol Combat = 154 35
Skill: Rifle Combat = 5 5
Skill: HighTech Combat = 83 14
Skill: Vehicle Use = 0 0
Skill: Agility = 94 92
Skill: Repair = 0 0
Skill: Recycle = 0 0
Skill: Remote Control = 0 0
-------Character Inventory-------
Special Forces CPU (Brain Chip)
Experimental Ballistic Weapon Chip 3 (Brain Chip)
MC5 Synaptic Accelerator CPU (Brain Chip)
BioTech (M.O.V.E.O.N) CPU (Brain Chip)
Pistol CombatEye 3 (Eye)
Experimental ReflexBooster 4 (Spine)
Pistol Combat Booster 1 (Combat)
Spy Booster 1 (Support)
Basic Resist Booster 1 (Resist)
Redflash (Drug)
Beast (Drug)
Whiteflash (Drug)
Serumderibat (Drug)
---------------------------------
O Rly ;)
;)
-----------Dexterity-----------
Current: 101 31
Skill: Pistol Combat = 154 35
Skill: Rifle Combat = 5 5
Skill: HighTech Combat = 83 14
Skill: Vehicle Use = 0 0
Skill: Agility = 94 92
Skill: Repair = 0 0
Skill: Recycle = 0 0
Skill: Remote Control = 0 0
-------Character Inventory-------
Special Forces CPU (Brain Chip)
Experimental Ballistic Weapon Chip 3 (Brain Chip)
MC5 Synaptic Accelerator CPU (Brain Chip)
BioTech (M.O.V.E.O.N) CPU (Brain Chip)
Pistol CombatEye 3 (Eye)
Experimental ReflexBooster 4 (Spine)
Pistol Combat Booster 1 (Combat)
Spy Booster 1 (Support)
Basic Resist Booster 1 (Resist)
Redflash (Drug)
Beast (Drug)
Whiteflash (Drug)
Serumderibat (Drug)
---------------------------------
O Rly ;)
;)
I said Packing, not missing half his shots while crawling around on the floor from Flash screamin " MY EYE'S THEY'RE BLEEDING!" :lol:
Good effort - wiseass :D
Dump his TC - give him some speed and some more PC - Libby tank!
he could get 120 wep lore tho, so he wouldnt exactly miss half his shots...
red+ beast+ White is a far bit of speed, throw a obscene amount of ATH, and bam ur ast.
anyways ontopic, my point is more dex wouldnt open up many more options to a Tank,
And even then, i wouldn't mind a pistol packing or rifle packing tank.
They are designed and bred as soldiers so they should be versatelit enough to be able to specialize in any kind of weapon. (No need to cap, but being able to use the rares would make sense.)
Just imagine you're an evil overlord, would you breed all your mutant soldiers to use baseball bats only or would you realize that even an army of clones would be more efficient if they can serve in different roles?
The only way to really make that happen, though, would be to also lower weapon requirements and then also adjusting the effects of skills and "base" damage of those weapons. Though, this is not yet in focus of the balance discussion, so i won't go on with it.
Tanks are meant to use cannons and melee weapons dammit. Stop trying to make them into something they're not meant to be or what they're not suited for !
Can we please stick to discussing balance ideas instead of dumb new toys..?
Sorry but people have finally got a recognised place to talk about the classes and all they're doing is trying to blag it by get peoples hopes up thinking loads of cool new grenades or whatnot are going to get added because it's going to 'balance' everything..
However, the current GenTank is not the easiest to cap. Most complain that Monk's INT is the hardest, but have you tried to level your CON to 100?
Just want to point out, that leveling Tank's CON is easier than leveling a Monk's INT. I've got a HC tank who's STR is lower than my PPU's PSI, and yet the CON and the INT are about the same.
Although, it probably is nastier to cap a tanks CON just because of the WAY you have to do it, a monk can spam a barrel in caves for hours without being in any real danger with a PPU. Yet a tank has to actually take a beating and Holy SD/primes are the main way to stay alive, but they also gimp your leveling to the max.
Hell-demon
21-03-06, 16:54
Keep psi on tanks due to teh fact I don't want to carry around aload of meds on me. With a heal spell I only need 1 item to regenerate my health. It helps soloing in a way. I can constantly melee and not worry about running out of meds coz I gotz me heal
Tanks are meant to use cannons and melee weapons dammit. Stop trying to make them into something they're not meant to be or what they're not suited for !
I agree that they _currently_ are not suited for that. Anyways, if a rework is comming, why not seing if we can increase the horizon, instead of hiding in a trashbin and hoping that the world is not changing?
Can we please stick to discussing balance ideas instead of dumb new toys..?
Hmm, it was the team who came up with the first toys. Removing PSI and compensating with new tech gadgets like high-tech healthpacks was first suggested by the developers. We're just taking that up and adding more ideas to it. If it's too much or not welcome, the developers can sure drop it again.
Sorry but people have finally got a recognised place to talk about the classes and all they're doing is trying to blag it by get peoples hopes up thinking loads of cool new grenades or whatnot are going to get added because it's going to 'balance' everything..
And again, i am sorry if this is out of your vision of the tank. My grenade suggestion would be hard to add seperately afterwards without breaking balance again, so either it's added and considered now, or probably not at all.
While some people see perfect balance already when two characters stand in 10 meters distance, start shooting at each other when one dies, his last bullet already is fired and kills the other one half a second later.
For some people, this definition surely is enough. In my eyes, balance must be more, classes don't only need to be "equal" in terms of durability and firepower, they all also need to be fun to play. And while playing the tough thug with heavy weapons is quite some fun for some time, more versatility, especially more tactical options in combat, would sure add some spice to the tank and would increase the fun to play.
And i dare to conclude: more fun to play -> more tanks in the game... if all classes are a lot of fun to play, we'll see a lot of diversity. (And i agree, balancing in terms of survivability and firepower is a first step, if a class is badly underrated, it sure is little fun to play. But in my eyes, balancing this is only the start.)
Perhaps i am thinking too much, perhaps i have too great visions for the game, but i rather add some ideas and suggestions, knowing that a good deal won't be implemented for one or another reason, than just shutting up and aiming for the lowest possible goal.
Keep psi on tanks due to teh fact I don't want to carry around aload of meds on me. With a heal spell I only need 1 item to regenerate my health. It helps soloing in a way. I can constantly melee and not worry about running out of meds coz I gotz me heal
The health-kit, according to some discussed variants, might even be more useful to you than the Psi. One tool in the belt and some "nano packs" or whatever in your inventory... that's not much more stuff to carry around and the healing probably is better than what you get out of a TL3 or TL10 heal...
I do hope some of the ideas here dont take off, flash grenades? Come on out of game their a good idea in game they'd just be used to blind an opponent before they killed them off.
But keep ideas coming, also making medkits a "skill" means that other classes will get the benifit of both increased medkits and psi heals, thus overpowering them.
Gentank stim packs ARE a good idea and how do we make them Tank only?
"Due to the extream pressure on the bodies system form shock these new Biotech stim packs can only be used by gentanks, they tend to kill other users."
Problem solved and they can set them to be "class only"
As for the tanks getting +10 dex, since Dirus wants to professionalise the game you would NOT see tank welding judges because they cant choose the profession that would get them, however they COULD use non rare pistols.
I think the idea of deployable turrets that Tanks can man would be great, if it's stationary it could be much more powerful than normal hc weapons but it cant move, and it can be destroyed or the gunner can be killed (being sat still makes it alot easier to target him and not miss).
AOE Weapons are useless for PVP as stated before, they are PVE only unless you know where the enemy are coming from and can sit far enough away to rack off a couple of shots before switching to a non splash weapon.
Mechs... ;) .
Other than that. Tanks should have a Rare "Turrent" that only an HC tank who meets the requirments can get into. Ex: a Rare aoe turrent That you can place untop of the hill at cycrow and the tank can gun. And can be destroyed like a turrent. And you cannot deploy a seconds one until your 1st one has been destroyed, or you can make it so only the Tank who placed it can gun it. You could have different variations(AOE, Anti-Veichle, Direct Damage, etc...)and they could be obtained like drones.
1) find the 6 parts
2) build it with constructor
3) BP it but constructed ones have 70-80ish stats and are harder to cap than the original ones.
You would have to work out the damges and a few things. But it would be like gunning a reveler you would be vunerable while in the turrent and stationary. Maybe you could add mods which could be obatined in DOY tunnels something like "ulatimas" but make some of the turrents Shelter penetrating/ deflector penetrating. But in that case you would have to come up with some kind of system which would allow the turrnets to be picked up after their use. Or give them epic status like the TG grenades. I dont think peole would like to work so hard for a turrent w/rare mod they cant pick back up. Just a Very Very Rough Idea.
Another idea I had in mind would be a long range artillery turrent which could be placed say at the north tower in the f-12 zone and then somehow either a spy or the tank would launch a drone some sort of mechanism which would "paint" the target and then it would be bombarded with aoe. Either way all of these turrent idea would need some kind of special targeting system to see from a longer than average range. Ex: a Scope or once inside the "Turrent" your HUD changes to that of the drone but modifed for the turrent. This would bring teamwork within other classes besides fighter+ppu. having a tank gun a turrent and a spy fly a Drone out the "Paint" the target.
Comments?
Seems to make vehicles quite pointless.
Not really.... Veichles would still be great for all PvM puposes. Doy bombers/Carriers would still server their purpose with their ability to show up bomb and leave. Same with revelers and tanks. viechles still have the upper hand considering they arent limited to one spot.
Im sorry but all ur doing with these plans are destroying the class, it will become more PPU depident without a doubt if you remove psi, the only thing that needs to be done in my opinion is NERF the damage output of a APU from insane to sane and the game would be fine... This would result in people willing to play other classes in PvP than your usually PPU,APU combo
Im sorry but all ur doing with these plans are destroying the class, it will become more PPU depident without a doubt if you remove psi, the only thing that needs to be done in my opinion is NERF the damage output of a APU from insane to sane and the game would be fine... This would result in people willing to play other classes in PvP than your usually PPU,APU combo
No your not seeing the big picture. Removing psi is only half of it. The gain will definitly be greater then the loss becouse thats the whole point of it.
Psi or no psi, whatever, as long as tanks have some kind working heal I’m pretty happy about that issue.
However, I have another issue that I’m most certainly not happy with, that’s the current runspeed with cannon out is relation to a pistol/rifle. Generally cannons don’t do any more dmg than pistols/rifles. But when I pull up cannon I got absolutely no speed left, no matter how much AGL&ATL I got (and I’ve got bucket loads, I tell you). Others easily run away with less than 50% of my AGL&ATL when both got a gun out. This been tested a lot.
I understand that tanks have to be slower than spies & private eyes with weapon out, but current runspeed nerf is just ridiculous... :mad:
ide be happy to just have my mc tank working as he should instead of hitting ppl ten times and only seeing one lot of red numbers come off i dont even heal during a fight on my tank its a waste of time with the shitty casting .
Not really.... Veichles would still be great for all PvM puposes. Doy bombers/Carriers would still server their purpose with their ability to show up bomb and leave. Same with revelers and tanks. viechles still have the upper hand considering they arent limited to one spot. ok let me re-phrase my comment: turrets would be pointless because we already have vehicles and it seems a bit unrealistic to carry a turret everywhere you go.
ok let me re-phrase my comment: turrets would be pointless because we already have vehicles and it seems a bit unrealistic to carry a turret everywhere you go.
I agree up to some degree. The term "turret" indicates some hardened emplacement, which surely is not portable.
I'd rather change the description to some portable support weapon. Options would be a heavy machinegun (though, since the speedgatlin is portable, i wonder which machinegun would not be portable any more) or some mortar.
The heavy weight while undeployed and the static position while deployed, while not protecting the tank by any armour, can surely be considered a significant disadvantage. This could be offset by a bit more firepower than equivalent mobile weapons and some more range / accuracy with the emplacement weaponry. (Perhaps even give the user of a mortar some binoculars. A cloud of smoke rising from the firing site will give his position away, but he surely got first shot. If the enemy got some airborne support or knows how to use the terrain, the guy with the mortar is dead. If not, he might score a kill or two before the enemy is close enough to give him some bad heat.)
I actually think that this would be harder to implement than the grenades suggestion, though. It would have little use in any indoor fight, but would be absolutely cool on outdoor combat. If it would see widespread use or would be noted as nice but not helpful would probably depend a lot on some details of implementation.
Thus i would say, it can stand on it's own next to vehicles:
- vehicles offer partial (chaincraft) or complete (rhino) protection for the crew. The emplacements would leave the user open to attack.
- vehicles are mobile and thus can be used more flexible in different combat situations.
- emplacements can be used alone while most combat vehicles require a second person to operate properly.
- emplacements would reduce mobility when carried, due to their weight.
- emplacements give a significant edge when used smartly (higher range, surprise attack) but lack flexibility if the situation changes quickly.
Really, i like the idea but i think they would need a lot of coding to implement and even more work to create them in a way that they are fun to use and still balanced. That's why i think that this idea might never leave the drawing board, despite being perfectly suitable for the tank.
I understand that tanks have to be slower than spies & private eyes with weapon out, but current runspeed nerf is just ridiculous... :mad:[/QUOTE]
i dont exactly agree with you there i feel a tank should still be faster after all there meant to be war machines and they have the str and con to enforce that but apart from the obviuos size of a cannon which would slow u down theres not much weight between rifs and cannons is there but a tank has over twice the str of a spy.
I'd imagine a cannon is much much heavier than a rifle.
You want a CS wielding war machine running faster than everyone else?
I'd imagine a cannon is much much heavier than a rifle.
You want a CS wielding war machine running faster than everyone else?
Ingame wirghting doesn't really have much of an impact. You have to read what people are saying. The runspeed nerf needs to be.. nerfed. I'm all for fair play, which is why I'm still in favour of either a slow tank with a big clip, or a faster ( Than it is now) tank with a small clip.
i dont exactly agree with you there i feel a tank should still be faster after all there meant to be war machines and they have the str and con to enforce that but apart from the obviuos size of a cannon which would slow u down theres not much weight between rifs and cannons is there but a tank has over twice the str of a spy.
Be careful what you ask for. It would be rather easy to change the weight of the cannons to more properly reflect it's size and justify the reduction in movement speed. (Less than 8 kg sounds little for a moonstriker, considering that it's almost as big as the user...)
Since this would force the tank to only carry one or two weapons any more, instead of the weapon stockpile i already saw on a tank, i think the current setup is better. Carrying more toys (aka weapons) around sure makes the tank more fun to play then having to choose one or two weapons to take along.
Ingame wirghting doesn't really have much of an impact. You have to read what people are saying. The runspeed nerf needs to be.. nerfed. I'm all for fair play, which is why I'm still in favour of either a slow tank with a big clip, or a faster ( Than it is now) tank with a small clip.
Here i agree... larger magazines for some weapons, especially the gatlins, would be very helpful and reduced movement speed would be an acceptable price for that.
Be careful what you ask for. It would be rather easy to change the weight of the cannons to more properly reflect it's size and justify the reduction in movement speed. (Less than 8 kg sounds little for a moonstriker, considering that it's almost as big as the user...)
Since this would force the tank to only carry one or two weapons any more, instead of the weapon stockpile i already saw on a tank, i think the current setup is better. Carrying more toys (aka weapons) around sure makes the tank more fun to play then having to choose one or two weapons to take along.
To be fair - anyone with an ounce of sense would take no more than one or two weapons anywhere but an OP fight. And one of them is always going to be a speedie for it's non-drop or a dev for it's ease of procurement.
Anything else you can stick in a gogo.And to be fair, even at an OP fight the gogo is easily accessible if you keep it tidy.
But, as with most things, it's all about playstyle. Possibly a 3 weapon toolout consisting of Dev/Speedie/CS, but that may be pushing it! :p
. Most complain that Monk's INT is the hardest, but have you tried to level your CON to 100? Bare in mind how you gain CON exp, is has to be the hardest.
i leveled my con to 100 before i hit 80 str... it all depends on where you level
Compensation for loosing PSI:
I think that to compensate for losing PSI tanks should get the following:
Marine CPU (+7 Health +7 Resist Force)
Hercules (+8 Health +8 Resist Force)
Note i didnt add in moveon since anyone can use that, and i didnt want to over power them, my other suggestion was all three chips have +5 health, +5 force
And perhaps even a low int deflector belt? Also that the -10 psi goes into Dex. I'd also like to see HC pa lose the -25 athletics NERF (yes REMOVE IT) because most ppl wont use pa with it on, and increase the HC bonus by +5, and in case of MC pa increase that by +5. (if you really have to nerf movement at least make it -25 agility, though I dont like the sound of that any more than the -25 athletics).
Compensation for loosing PSI:
I think that to compensate for losing PSI tanks should get the following:
Marine CPU (+7 Health +7 Resist Force)
Hercules (+8 Health +8 Resist Force)
Note i didnt add in moveon since anyone can use that, and i didnt want to over power them, my other suggestion was all three chips have +5 health, +5 force
And perhaps even a low int deflector belt? Also that the -10 psi goes into Dex. I'd also like to see HC pa lose the -25 athletics NERF (yes REMOVE IT) because most ppl wont use pa with it on, and increase the HC bonus by +5, and in case of MC pa increase that by +5. (if you really have to nerf movement at least make it -25 agility, though I dont like the sound of that any more than the -25 athletics).
No point in suggesting modifying stats on exisitng implants, since they're all gonna end up under the knife.
Since all these ideas are so inter-linked, does this mean that they are all coming in one big patch?
I have to say we were quite surprised by the reactions to our last announcement concerning Evol 2.2. The general rejection of our plans for Neocron 2.2 encouraged us to rethink and reschedule said plans -but Evol2.2 has not been canceled. We will however work on balancing and bug fixing first, in cooperation with the community Could you also confirm that this is not evo 2.2 like so many people are saying that it is?
No point in suggesting modifying stats on exisitng implants, since they're all gonna end up under the knife.
I was suggesting modifiying them if tanks lose PSI, you cant nerf tanks psi and just give them a heal tool. Though if you modify things enough so that the loss of psi doesnt matter then thats ok too :)
Since all these ideas are so inter-linked, does this mean that they are all coming in one big patch?
Could you also confirm that this is not evo 2.2 like so many people are saying that it is?
Big patch is most likely when it goes to retail yes, all this stuff is going on the Test Server prior to that.
As for if this is being considered Evo 2.2, I'll let the office make that call.
No your not seeing the big picture. Removing psi is only half of it. The gain will definitly be greater then the loss becouse thats the whole point of it.
What bigger picture not only is there a removal of psi but the damage out it nerfed ? GG its like the fuckin south park movie operation darkie human shield is there purpose which is shit cos no one is gonna play it
The biggest issue gentanks face is the fact that although they are supposidly the strongest and last the longest frontline soldiers this is infact a myth
on there own they drop reasonable quickly due to a poor con and due to the fact that they dont have shelter (shhhhh u gimped drug addys)
in 1 on 1 tanks die toooo fast, they should be able to take more of a beating than currently possible also, due to the speed drop from HC weps they shud have this ability to take more damage as they become the slowest (unparaed) targets on the battlefield with hc weps out.
stop messing around with psi and sort the real issue guys!
stop messing around with psi and sort the real issue guys! that's one of the dumbest things i've heard recently, right next to nobby's dance mat thread.
The biggest issue gentanks face is the fact that although they are supposidly the strongest and last the longest frontline soldiers this is infact a myth
In your estimation? We all know thats a myth, they're nothing more than another class for gods sake, no one class should last longer than any other. =/ This is a Balance forum for gods sake!
on there own they drop reasonable quickly due to a poor con and due to the fact that they dont have shelter (shhhhh u gimped drug addys)
Poor con?! O_o What planet are you from? You don't NEED a shelter as a tank. Besides, once the psi buffs and protectives go under the knife it's going to work differently anyway.
in 1 on 1 tanks die toooo fast,
Wha?
they should be able to take more of a beating than currently possible
They take the biggest beating of all the classes! Why? because they have the most health! Tank 550 health to drop, PE 450. That PE is ALWAYS going to take less damage to drop.
also, due to the speed drop from HC weps they shud have this ability to take more damage as they become the slowest (unparaed) targets on the battlefield with hc weps out.
No brainer.
stop messing around with psi and sort the real issue guys!
[ edited ] We all know the issues with tanks. We don't need them rehiterated for the umpteenth time. Tanks should in fact lose the Psi. It'd make room for more weaponlore, dropping the HC needed, making it more viable ( than it is already) to become a Hybrid.
As a hybrid, HC speed doesn't matter, once you get into the furball, you whip out a melee. Simple.
If you read the thread, the issues you raise have been done to death, and some are just plain wrong.
give Tanks a real set of HC implants bonuses,
with implant, you can almost use paw of tiger with 10 points in Melee.
for HC there is only hc eye that is valuable
give Tanks a real set of HC implants bonuses,
with implant, you can almost use paw of tiger with 10 points in Melee.
for HC there is only hc eye that is valuable
harden backbone? =p
not saying i don't agree tho, maybe change bes1 to +3, bes2 to +5 and bes3 to +10 (in both hc and mc) or something simple, the melee experimental stuff is pretty pointless imo. the arm/bbone kinda even out, xrr arm and harden3 are both +8, if you're a pure mc tank you shouldn't be using the bq arm (that's where it gets a lot easier to get points)
Apocalypsox
23-04-06, 20:14
On this case of the Heavy imps, i bring this idea to bear. it has bugged me for years. (Tanks can still easily use all weapons without even taking this into consideration, but thats not the point.) There are only about 6 brain implants that raise your str! 3 of them are rare or semi rare or just epic. i find this kind of strange, considering how many dex imps there are.
Heavyporker
23-04-06, 23:08
Well... to make GenTanks better frontline soliders, why not just make weapons/items with more abilities?
What about all these ideas for special-ability grenades, FFS! FFS!
What about the idea of a shield-generator that only a near-maxed/maxed gentank could carry because of it's sheer weight and energy requirements?
New implants that grossly enhance a gentank's resistances/abilties at the cost of any other ability? Like hollow titanium bone implants that gives huge boost to agility but makes his energy resistance go to shit?
At this point, I'm starting to think that only equipment, not character statistics, will make a difference for gentanks on the battlefield.
Kami Chips for tanks!
As for teh Frontline soldier thing, I don't know. Sure, it makes sense on paper, but fighting in neocron doesn't really have any "lines" and barely any strategies. I know the foundations of the gentank are rooted firmly in the ideas of modern warfare, troop formations fire from a distance etc, but in neocron, they cannot be applied in the same way. It's just one big furball!
I'd say leave out the fact his background states frontline troops, and just bal;ance them according to thier stats and roles ingmae. If that makes sense :S
Rail Guns, weapons that use magnets to launch projectiles extreamly powerful and leathal down side is large lock on and low ammo hold (4) basically a sniper cannon.
I Like this sorta idea have these, maybe have them fixed on Ops where tanks can sit and kick ass proper op defence maybe probably a max of 2-3 depending on dmg this way maybe have better battles with rhino's and other gentanks having anti-op missiles or some crap
Just an idea.....
Maybe something in the underground the Tank could "log" into to control an op railgun.......just little idea's in a big game hehe ;)
the tanks fine as it is
tbh i think the kk or whoever should sort out the
net code for melee tanks cos you could chop all day
and if they are walking backwards not running walking
the tank does no damage what so ever to what ever
they are attacking
yes but... new guns... GUNS... GUNS !!!!!
and beer... BEER... BEER !!!!
for tanks
yes but... new guns... GUNS... GUNS !!!!!
and beer... BEER... BEER !!!!
for tanks
Beer and Grenades i say! (Really, grenades currently are the most worthless kind of weaponry in the game... but a few simple changes could make then quite attractive. )
I am waiting for the first tank to throw a can of Crons at an enemy while guzzling on a grenade... :D ;)
As for if this is being considered Evo 2.2, I'll let the office make that call. *still waiting for call*
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