View Full Version : Monk Proposition #1
Today and over the next week we’d like to see your feedback about several possible changes. These propositions concern specific aspects of the class roles. We will add more propositions throughout the week.
To somewhat weaken the abilities of the monk, be it solo or in the team, it would be possible to introduce the Exotic Psi Use (EPU) skill. EPU would contain modules like buffs, antibuffs, freeze and damage boost. This would make the EPU monk an important supporter, while the APU would be a pure damage dealer and the PPU a pure healer.
This separation would also affect the Private Eye, as he would have to choose between a small heal and shelter (good against tank and spy) or small buffs and antibuffs (good against monks). The damagebooster would certainly be out of the PE’s reach though.
Dribble Joy
24-03-06, 18:11
Getting DB out of any combat class' reach is real step towards better team and solo balance.
Again heal rates are an issue that needs to be looked at separately, but PPUs should not be reduced in their roles too much if EPU takes president for buffs.
Is this heal tool going to add a certain % of a players HP or just a lump of it?
One thing that is concerning me about this, I'm not too sure how I'm going to explain it.
Imagine my heal heals my PE for 150HP over 15 seconds.
(Just as an example, I have no idea what the exact health added/cooldown for this tool will be) My tool will heal 75HP per use, to make it as effective as it was prebalance, it's going to have to have a cooldown which is roughly 7 seconds.
Basically what I'm trying to say is will I have to keep switching back to my tool every few seconds to gradually get my health back up during combat - since the health added will be a little bit (which will be extremely annoying since I'll get a lot less time shooting) or will it add a lot of health back but not ready for antoher use for 15 seconds (which may be a tad overpowering..)
If anyone gets my meaning..
[edit]
Sorry I just realised this is the totally wrong thread, the part about PEs at the bottom got me thinking about it.
Dribble Joy
24-03-06, 18:25
Hopefully it's freq should be the same as the heals. Though perhaps we could get higher lvl ones that do the same healing per time, but have lower freq (once every 20-30 seconds) but do more healing per shot.
RogerRamjet
24-03-06, 18:41
Would mean more monks at OP fights.
Seems to lower the amount of strategic options per class if you ask me.
EDIT: Would be fine if a few more spells were added
Bugs Gunny
24-03-06, 19:24
Like the idea, and i'm sure it can be tried in combat, team combat and all things adjusted
I've played a pure APU and PPU. One thing I like about the APU is the ability to kick some ass with my Holy Lightning.
Moving the anti-buff to EPU, would be ok, but how would a pure EPU level if they can't deal damage anything? You would have to depend on a APU to level, like the PPU does now.
Then there is the PPU, who can buff, and heal. Making the PPU a pure healer to me, means one very bored PPU. Playing a PPU is a bit of an art, and hard work, but I enjoy it as you do have to be on your toes all the time, but click-heal....click heal.
What is not clear from your proposal is some finer details. Is EPU a requirement to use a EPU spell (Like MST), or a skill that effects damage and frequency etc? (I get the impression that it's a skill that effects damage etc..) How easy would it be to be a hybrid?
As I see things from your proposal, being a pure EPU or PPU could turn out to be quite a boring set of monk sub-classes to play.
One other think, to level effectivly would be you would need a APU, EPU and a PPU.
Unless Dirus or Thanatos come up with some other details, this one gets a thumbs down from me.
Exoctic psi use ... hmmm.... NAH
I mean this make sense on paper but in game it would force ppl to have more monks again.
Think again .... we would have a EPU/PPU and APU/PPU now !
EPU would be one more class that needs a ppu buttplug 100% of time in OP!
And yes thats what it would trigger.
Do we still wanna see the random PPU in OP war.Oh i forgot now that 'random ppu' would have no SD or heals, couldnt attack all he would do is hug YET ANOTHER MONK.
Why not make the APU do all that ?
(i.e. put PARA'DB and HAB in the same TL/mana drain category, 260 mana per cast)
sanityislost
24-03-06, 20:15
This idea im not to sure about, do we really need another class of monk?
SiL ..:..
braydagner
24-03-06, 20:16
Kinda say...I don't like it. What I'd like to see is this - Take away the PSI req. armor. That, in my opinion, is what makes monks overpowered. They're supposed to be weak but effective fighters, and they have enough resists from their armor to be both. Full holy spirit armor, heavy fire belt...thats WAY too high for a monk. Let them keep the belts, fine, but take away the PSI req. armor.
Exotic Psi Use (EPU)Whoah, major deja vu. Wasn't Exotic in early neocron?
The reblancing for the Monk i think should be GAMEPLAY wise.
By that i mean : reduce the overall 'ease' of playing a monk.
Right now, when playing monk, the ppu has all the hard work (sd,heal,para,db,etc) and the apu only has to damage/hab.
Put more on the APU's shoulder (para,db,hab) to make the APU as complex to play as a PPU.
Then maybe cut in their advantages and rebalance the ease to play monk vs gund.
mana pools and boosters should get seriously reviewed.
spell cap also should.
(make them need more APU to cap HL/FA and therefore lower the average APU's mana pool. Make it so NO APU no matter the setup cant cast 2 HAB/PARA/DB in a row.
Dribble Joy
24-03-06, 20:18
The psi armour only really 'overpowers' their energy defence, they still struggle to get decent defences in the other areas with enough hp. What we need is a rework of all the armours to better represent the intended places all the classes fall in the offence/defence line-up.
Perhaps it would be wiser if people didn't jump to conclusions too much. The game will be very different to what it is now, and there can be new items too
braydagner
24-03-06, 20:22
Put more on the APU's shoulder (para,db,hab) to make the APU as complex to play as a PPU.
Do NOT under ANY circumstances give APUs Para...
mana pools and boosters should get seriously reviewed.
spell cap also should.
(make them need more APU to cap HL/FA and therefore lower the average APU's mana pool. Make it so NO APU no matter the setup cant cast 2 HAB/PARA/DB in a row.
I agree with the the give some time after a HAB...but still....not Para for APUs...
braydagner
24-03-06, 20:24
I want to see this - Along with the stam booster, make the Psi booster not as easy as press and its used...make it so that the monk has to activate it like a weapon, and jab it into his arm...Give it the normal weapon reload time, but intern, make spells take less mana. This would even the constant firing from a monk..but don't gimp them so that they have to do that every 5 or 6 shots...maybe 10-12 for HL and FA...and 15-17 for Poison...5 for barrels.
Cmon guys be open minded : why not ?
Nothing to say that hasn't been said, but count me against it.
Oh and the range on APU spells like should be about the same as the ppu's heal/sd : very short.
This is yet another factor that makes the monk's gameplay very easy.
Oh and the current hybrid setup that uses HL and DB and has better resist then a defensive-setup PE yet makes more damage then an offensive-setup PE is another inconsistency.
Again in the center of the issue is the DB ....
Obsidian X
24-03-06, 20:33
I think people seem to have got the wrong idea about this EPU malarky - there won't be any such thing as a "Pure EPU" I wouldn't have thought, as it can only possibly apply to a very small number of spells max. What I imagine is that there will be:
pure PPUs
pure APUs
APU based EPU Hybrids
PPU based EPU Hybrids
EPU based monks with whatever they can spare in either PPU or APU - not enough to be classed as a proper hybrid. These however would be able to use all the EPU stuff (depending on the EPU reqs on stuff like Holy Para)
Damn, I've gone cross eyed. 8|
This might make some of the current hybrids disappear, without DB and antibuffs, current hybrids varietys seem pointless. As for me, I can't say I like this idea until I know a bit more about exactly how they plan on distributing requirements and EPU and whatnot. o_O
Edit: Would this mean MST has to go?
i dont know about this.. if everything is balanced then their shouldn't be a problem no matter how you move things around I suppose.
DONT move para to another class, REMOVE PARA!!
Borrowing an idea from another post...what if the EPU had melee psi weapons...no reason for lots of str reqs because it's aided by psi. In addition this would give monks some cool variety. EPU uses buffs/antibuffs and melee psi. While APUs stick with curent spells, and ppus also stick with curent spells. I would love to play an EPU with melee psi and buffs/antibuffs. It would be very easy to balance melee psi wep damage so that they aren't overpowered. They can level then and still be ateam player
Dribble Joy
24-03-06, 20:51
The problem there is similar to the spirit mod and PEs with DB. You end up with combat classes that while balanced on their pure offence/defence, their other skills, which might be useful in a team, make them far to powerful solo.
Oh yeah and were gonna ee a lot of new ppu/epu hybrids whoring OP fight para/db everyone.
i hate the idea of exotic so far.
awkward silence
24-03-06, 21:45
Today and over the next week we’d like to see your feedback about several possible changes. These propositions concern specific aspects of the class roles. We will add more propositions throughout the week.
To somewhat weaken the abilities of the monk, be it solo or in the team, it would be possible to introduce the Exotic Psi Use (EPU) skill. EPU would contain modules like buffs, antibuffs, freeze and damage boost. This would make the EPU monk an important supporter, while the APU would be a pure damage dealer and the PPU a pure healer.
This separation would also affect the Private Eye, as he would have to choose between a small heal and shelter (good against tank and spy) or small buffs and antibuffs (good against monks). The damagebooster would certainly be out of the PE’s reach though.
I like the idea of adding EPU (or splitting PPU into EPU and PPU), since ppus are too powerfull. However as someone said we would see more monks ingame. Instead of APU/PPU we will have APU/PPU/EPU combos.
You dont just need to change but also weaken.
awkward silence
24-03-06, 21:47
Kinda say...I don't like it. What I'd like to see is this - Take away the PSI req. armor. That, in my opinion, is what makes monks overpowered. They're supposed to be weak but effective fighters, and they have enough resists from their armor to be both. Full holy spirit armor, heavy fire belt...thats WAY too high for a monk. Let them keep the belts, fine, but take away the PSI req. armor.
Agree 100%
dont like the idea of another monk but i do agree with kames first post on here if a monk has more to use aswell they wont be using there HL 100% of the time in fight so then they do less dmg anyway
Borrowing an idea from another post...what if the EPU had melee psi weapons...no reason for lots of str reqs because it's aided by psi. In addition this would give monks some cool variety. EPU uses buffs/antibuffs and melee psi. While APUs stick with curent spells, and ppus also stick with curent spells. I would love to play an EPU with melee psi and buffs/antibuffs. It would be very easy to balance melee psi wep damage so that they aren't overpowered. They can level then and still be ateam player
Theres a lot going on in this thread. Anyways one of the big things is leveling, I am one of those people who thinks that any class should be able to find a way to level on their own if they want to, sorry to say even the ppu. PPU requirement melee psi gloves would be a nice option, but they would have to be limited in some way as to not effect pvp balance. Perhaps the attacks only work on mobs or something I dunno but I'm sure it can be worked out. As for the apu perhaps some kind of mob draining module might be the way to go.
The other thing to consider here is the new reliance on the profession choices, which I'm sorry to say without some way to enforce what path the player actually takes a req for the profession alone is not adequate means to place reqs on items. So lets say they implement a automated system that gives you a profession based on your current skill layout, meaning if you are speced to a certain point in certain skills you profession is updated to match the new profession and the equipment/items that was specific to your previous profession would no longer function. This method might be an effective way to prevent wacko hybrids doing things they shouldn't. In the end one could set up the profession requirement system in such a way to prevent abuse of the PSI system in general.
Either way this presentation requires way more information, with regards to specific implementation, before the community can adequately and intelligently converse on it, in a agree or disagree fashion as I think the thread was intended. Monks are sensitive and easily unbalanced, as the years have proven time and time again.
-A
I don't like it.
It will mean more monks at an op war
It will make each monk class more limited and montonious.
Other than that I don't see it changing things.
weaken ppus bye removing all monk armour
then introducing new monk armour that gives defence based on apu and psu
apu : psu : ppu
4:2:-1
an apu with 150 apu and 200 psu gets an over all armour rating of 1000 which should be equivilant to whatever armour they have now
EDIT(65 FORCE. 72 PERCING, 58 FIRE, 172 ENERGY, 42 XRAY, 0 POISON)
a ppu with 150 ppu and 200 psu would get 350 which would be one third as effective as the current monk armour
EDIT(22 FORCE. 25 PERCING, 20 FIRE, 70 ENERGY, 13 XRAY, 0 POISON)
a hyb with 100 100 200 would get 700 wich should be around 2 thirds of the defence there current line of holy armour gets them
EDIT(44 FORCE. 49 PERCING, 39 FIRE, 115 ENERGY, 30 XRAY, 0 POISON)
apu's wearing monk armour is powered by there pure hatride anger and agressive tendencies. aswell as partialy from there intelectual abilitys in the psionic area
ppu's rely on there ability to shelter them self from hard with modules rather than a manifestation of there hatrid
hybs rely on both
if you could make the armour's strength based on apu then you would make ppus more killable. while alowing solo apus to keep the defence they have.
and inorder to keep it fair after hitting em that hard in the armour department is make all modules over cast current modules restarting the timer (self cast only)
as for splitting to exotic and ppu... this would totaly nurf the solo PE. there i no point having a pe withough a shelter because you may aswell role a tank. by the time you anti buff sumbody. if you havent got a shelter you will be ripped to shreds...
i just cant see the reason to role a ppu if the 2 are seperated... therse just not enough to do
the pe's psi made up for his lack of armour and offencive powers... its there to fill in the holes
i say remove monks completely to make this game playable again, and think how much easier then all this balancing bs.
we gave monks a shot for a few years, they didn't work out..
Dribble Joy
25-03-06, 01:26
Really no need for any of that Zov.
Assuming the skill and itemchanges go right, the amount of armour/defences an apu has would be balanced to their offence, and like PEs/Spies previously, be able to increase/decrease each as they see fit.
Pop an offencive imp and put in a moveon, or pop your PA for a better defencive armour.
The basic monk armour could be reworked (spread across all dmg types or have different types like dura and inq) as a 'base' minimal amount of protection that people can then add to or not.
P.S. I dunno if you're drunk or not, but that last post was bearly readable.
P.S. I dunno if you're drunk or not, but that last post was bearly readable.
just got back of a loooong drinking secion
but i tryed to keep it as readable as posible
i dont like the idea of splitting ppu.... i would be bored shitless if al i could do was heal shelter deflecor all the time
same as damage boost and anti cast and primes....
i dont like the idea of apu's losing any def for solo
but again i dont like the idea of buffs being as strong on them in teams
id prefer ppus to be weaker especialy when anti buffed, but i dont want to see the apus taking the hit
and i REALY dont like the effects on pe's... theres no point havin a pe withough his shelter or db.
just got back of a loooong drinking secion
but i tryed to keep it as readable as posible
i dont like the idea of splitting ppu.... i would be bored shitless if al i could do was heal shelter deflecor all the time
same as damage boost and anti cast and primes....
i dont like the idea of apu's losing any def for solo
but again i dont like the idea of buffs being as strong on them in teams
id prefer ppus to be weaker especialy when anti buffed, but i dont want to see the apus taking the hit
and i REALY dont like the effects on pe's... theres no point havin a pe withough his shelter or db.
wow very well said, I agree compleatly
The bottom line, dirus, is that the less a single pure monk has to do the easier it is to play them.
Right now good ppus can keep you alive real good.
A super PPU can keep you alive real good AND para/DB.
The APU on his side, is very easy to play.
Team coordination took aside, the APU only has to choose between the 4 types of damage available to him and HAB and shoot.
Also have you seen most APUs belt lately ?
I personally have lots of spell (HL,FA,HAB amd poison beam in belt)stamina booster many psi boosters and anti para drugs.
Hell my APU even has a noob jones katana in his belt..
The APU is too easy to play.
Coordinating teamwork over vent is rather easy.
There is too much advantages to play APU/PPU over many classes and especially for the less skilled ppl : its the easiest/quickest way to kill ppl.
spliting spells will only INCREASE the ease of playing monk.
Monks dont need to specialize : they need a complete rework.
EDIT
Also the beams make locational damage and that should be taken away from this type of wepons.
It also makes no sense.(thunder from sky only hit feets ???)
The lance type of spells should make locational damage.
And the blast type of spell should make AOE and require no hitbos lock.
Today and over the next week we’d like to see your feedback about several possible changes. These propositions concern specific aspects of the class roles. We will add more propositions throughout the week.
To somewhat weaken the abilities of the monk, be it solo or in the team, it would be possible to introduce the Exotic Psi Use (EPU) skill. EPU would contain modules like buffs, antibuffs, freeze and damage boost. This would make the EPU monk an important supporter, while the APU would be a pure damage dealer and the PPU a pure healer.
This separation would also affect the Private Eye, as he would have to choose between a small heal and shelter (good against tank and spy) or small buffs and antibuffs (good against monks). The damagebooster would certainly be out of the PE’s reach though.
The addon of yet another psi requirement (as long as its within psi ofcourse) which will act as skillpoints sink, has potential provided, its VERY finetuned. Even though I still dont understand the actual role of the ppu using stronger buffs/antibuffs in a ballanced system thats already is on the razor's edge at least make so, para is so much nerfed and needs so much EPU that leads to nerfs in other psi weapons.
As for removing DB from pes, I dont like this at all. 30%-40% of its combat role the PE uses this thing. It also needs a lot of skill to use it. Taking it away and you need to give them something in return for that loss
Im just thinking about leveling.. god.. its hard/slow to level a PPU... leveling someone that does mostly buffs that last 3-5minutes at time... less damage boost and para gives tons of xp :\
yea seems good on paper but i see this as problems
i like the idea of an epu. it remdinds me to my old guildwars time where there was a healer an a protector monk (i was mostyl protect monk). there was this "Monkbasedteamplay". dunno how to say better :lol:
anyway i think neocron has a too slow gameplay and to less diffrent spells (which u can use for pvp lawl) to make it real interactive for a epu.
so what will epu do while the others fight?
cast dmg boost and para on maintarget? snoooooorrrkkkkk
well not that interesting i think. there has to come alot more than just this new attribut on some spells..
as i already said on the german forums, by bringing back epu you would just need more monks to have the same effect.
that means there are less other classes on the battlefields next to the monk.
either there are less other classes or u get more monks in your clan.
i dont like both solutions.
on top of my armour idea
i think that the armour should disrupt psi manipulation both good and bad so a damageboost or a para doesnt work as well but at the same time a heal shelter or deflector wouldnt work as well. keeping the apu balacned with teh other classes
Adding EPU just means we get APU/EPU/PPU teams, as everyone else has said. Appaling idea. PPU is hard to play at the moment, but brings a silly amount of advantages. What in fact needs to be done is to make passive psi less critical for ALL classes. At the moment the single most important thing about any classes defence is their buffs, not their armour/con. The predominatne sound of fighting is spells being cast, even when no monks are there. Reevaluate and tweak the effect of PPU based spells on defence, and there need be no PPU problem. It also means that boosting the PEs psi up a little wouldn't be a game breaker.
only way to balance is remove monk
[X] no magic in the 28th century
Synchronize
25-03-06, 18:31
To somewhat weaken the abilities of the monk, be it solo or in the team, it would be possible to introduce the Exotic Psi Use (EPU) skill. EPU would contain modules like buffs, antibuffs, freeze and damage boost. This would make the EPU monk an important supporter, while the APU would be a pure damage dealer and the PPU a pure healer.
I have to answerd
How will PSY Level ?
PPU :
You cant level with PPU alone now, but with that how PPU can level ?
if PPU just heal (i play PPU for a long time and if you don like PvP (and i dont like it)) the only interrest is Team working, knowing when to buf, heal, ... and sometime DB (with a 6 player team you have difficulty to find the time to DB)
With the modification what PPU can do ? Heal so they can do nothing except watching TV when playing.
EPU :
What will do EPU a low level ? buffing other, it can be a real boring since the buf are 60s-2min long. And Db Monster but be care to dont agro because you can't heal yourself. And you cant level alone
And at high ? since they can heal going to DB player may be real hard, so they will be bot psy just waiting in a corner of the OP to buf player
APU :
The only one who can level so far with no difficulty, they lost nothing at low-middle level (for high level, i'm cant juge)
So what will apen ?
the couple PPU/APU everybody have problem with will became APU/EPU/PPU, and every one will have the same probleme
But people (like me) who love to play PPU just because they are helper for team will have to stop because they will have nothing to do except in OP war and PvP (or PkIng)
Jini it doesnt take a lot of skill to use a DB one someone...
Jini it doesnt take a lot of skill to use a DB one someone...
shush, he's an xbow PE so everything he does must take tons of skill.
Thats why Monks need huge nerfs but PEs are perfectly balanced.
With this new EPC spell would things like anti buff need 140 EPU skill and as a result mean that it has to be a specialist in only EPU skill.
Or would the reqs for EPU spells be lower meaning that a monk coud use still anti buff and apu spells (althought significantly lower damage output apu spells)
Additionally after what 4 years of ppl asking for para to be removed, isnt this going to be the perfect time to remove it?
Lets face it noone really likes para and if it wasnt ingame anymore i dont think we'd miss it either.
Creating EPU so u can give anti buff and para to its own specialist class is a bit of a ropey idea.
As with any of the suggestions, i think we need to get on the test server and actually give it a try
only way to balance is remove monk
[X] no magic in the 28th century
PSI = Psionics = Mental Abilities & Manipulation
Magic = Fairy crap = Nature Manipulation
Magic Fire = Who the hell knows.
PSI Fire = Tricking the Target's mind into believing they're on fire. Think of it as making the Target give themselves a really high fever almost to the point of human combustion.
Magic Poison = Again.. who the hell knows.
PSI Poison = Tricking the Targets mind into thinking their body is poisoned, causing their immune system to go nuts and attack it's self.
If you want a reason as to why barrels, and other people see it as well, ect.. Then think of it acting on a broader scale, The PSI Monk sends out mental waves saying such and such is on fire, or anyone who enters this area will burn.
The only time this wouldnt make sense is against "Tech" mobs like a Warbot..
But, since there is a half decent explination for most of it. Can we get away from this "Magic" crap?
braydagner
26-03-06, 03:22
PSI = Psionics = Mental Abilities & Manipulation
Magic = Fairy crap = Nature Manipulation
Magic Fire = Who the hell knows.
PSI Fire = Tricking the Target's mind into believing they're on fire. Think of it as making the Target give themselves a really high fever almost to the point of human combustion.
Magic Poison = Again.. who the hell knows.
PSI Poison = Tricking the Targets mind into thinking their body is poisoned, causing their immune system to go nuts and attack it's self.
If you want a reason as to why barrels, and other people see it as well, ect.. Then think of it acting on a broader scale, The PSI Monk sends out mental waves saying such and such is on fire, or anyone who enters this area will burn.
The only time this wouldnt make sense is against "Tech" mobs like a Warbot..
But, since there is a half decent explination for most of it. Can we get away from this "Magic" crap?
And what about PSI Energy? (like holy lightning?)
And what about PSI Energy? (like holy lightning?)
Your body produces its own energy,the brain runs on eletrical impulses.
braydagner
26-03-06, 04:47
Your body produces its own energy,the brain runs on eletrical impulses.
touche
err wouldn't a better justification be, psi can manipulate motion.
Lightning-using one's mind move electrons around in the air creating a lightning bolt.
Fire-Using one's mind make air molicules vibrate so fast they combust
Poison- Using one's mind distrupt the bio proccecies in an organic creature.
Psi atack- using one's mind send a solid wall of air at a target dealing a sledgehammer like blow.
Not keen on the idea of the PPU being split in half - if anything if not done correctly youd need more monks than there is now which is a bad thing as the monk populatrion is a tad saturated.
However, using EPU as a method to control Hybrids would get my vote, make an EPU range which is less affective than the pure versions of APU and PPU spells but contains the majority of both, give APU and PPU a negitive effect on the other so the current hybrid styles would be useless - then Hybrids or 'EPUs' would be easier to control and balance from their own spell range.
Not keen on the idea of the PPU being split in half - if anything if not done correctly youd need more monks than there is now which is a bad thing as the monk populatrion is a tad saturated.
However, using EPU as a method to control Hybrids would get my vote, make an EPU range which is less affective than the pure versions of APU and PPU spells but contains the majority of both, give APU and PPU a negitive effect on the other so the current hybrid styles would be useless - then Hybrids or 'EPUs' would be easier to control and balance from their own spell range.
Well, I thought the idea was to create less effective hybrids. PPUs could/would be PPU/EPU "hybrid", an APU could either be pure APU (for max damage) or be APU/PPU (some healing, less damage, no buffs, cannot really support like they can do at the moment), whereas hybrids as we have today cannot possibly hybrid effectively between all three: PPU/APU/EPU - to do what they can do now.
By adjusting the damage caps of the PPU and APU lines (PPU would cap much easier than the APU, so enabling PPUs to also put some points in EPU), this could easily be done.
Isn't that the idea?
Eddie
Dribble Joy
26-03-06, 15:31
Splitting the 'PPU' items into two lines does have great potential for creating even more necessity to have cirtain classes in a team environment.
However if it is done right, it could work. You just have to make sure that any benefits of having a PPU or EPU in a team are equal to having anyother class.
Hybrids are better fixed in other ways than this, and this doesnt really eliminate the "PPU problem" at all. It just spreads it.
Dribble Joy
26-03-06, 15:35
Assuming that the PPU problem can't be fixed and that's it's down to all the items they use.
Heavyporker
26-03-06, 18:26
I'm currently doing a proposal that KK rename the psi modules to better reflect their circumstances.
Psionics have a long history (in fiction, anyway.)
There's pyrokinesis. Setting things on fire. Ever see that movie "Firestarter"? Hell, the X-Files had a couple shows on pyrokinesis.
Psi Attacks can be classified as telekinetic punches (pure force).
There's a whole field of illnesses based on autoimmunity, where your body turns against itself, like leukemia, etc. Hell, even being stressed out can actually ruin your body, ulcers, weakened immune system, etc. Toxic (what a sucky name) definitely falls under autoimmunity. Autoimmunity PERFECTLY explains why only organic creatures in Neocron are vulnerable to poison (gawd, what was KK thinking?), not robots. In fact, robots should have complete immunity, not high resistance, to poison psi modules.
I recall there is a field in Biofeedback, where a person can heal himself (or at least, urge his body to do something) through the power of his mind. After all, even just being optimistic in general can improve your immune system, keeping you healthier. Heals would fall into this area.
We all know that, even when you're unfamiliar with something, the proper frame of mind, let's call it a meditative state, can greatly improve your ability to deal with it. Like salvaging something, or trying to hack into a computer.
And, yes, Dirus is right: our bodies contain a lot of energy, and our brains emply electrochemical impulses. I would consider it, though, telekinesis on a finer scale, for the kind of damage you see in a Holy Lightning.
Oh, that's another thing, I want to strip Blessed and Holy from the psi modules. Makes it sound too fairy dairy.
EPU sounds OKAY as long as...
It would be more of a ppu/epu character class wherein the character would have spells with ppu/epu requirements, and some spells with ppu/mst requirements... higher on the ppu for both so that it would make it where there would be one healer/buffer class but they would have to gimp one end of the spectrum or even it all out.
Oh and if you need some BS roleplay story behind monks recieving less of a foreign bonus (lowering their resists) just say that a monks psi powers are less compatible with another monks psi powers. making apu = glasscannon.
EDIT:::
Just had a thought... make psi boosters spells... that can only be self cast, different level requirements for each of course... have it act like a heal on your psi pool, the frequency doesn't have to be too low because of the time involved in switching spells to do it.
Dribble Joy
26-03-06, 19:05
EPU sounds OKAY as long as...
It would be more of a ppu/epu character class wherein the character would have spells with ppu/epu requirements, and some spells with ppu/mst requirements... higher on the ppu for both so that it would make it where there would be one healer/buffer class but they would have to gimp one end of the spectrum or even it all out.
I get the feeling that is the way it would work. The problem being is that you would then effectively have two ppu classes. Which could get messy indeed.
This epu is a good idea but it has to be done exactly* right.
Ppus need more than just heal and sd. They should heal, sd, give out longs, and do all the anti spells. ( db,para,poision ) I also think some spells should b added to increase his role. If more spells are added then ppuing will remain an art and it will not b boring.
The epu should not b a single class. I believe somone said earlier that it would simply be something an apu or a ppu would spec for. This is a good idea because a pure epu would make op fights more dependent on monks.
This way there would be a great variety of monks. Some pure apu..some pure ppu. The pures should b able to cap the spells and the hybrids should b able to debuff but not cap the spells. Thats where the nerf will come in place for the apu and ppu calsses. If they can use the ever so vital debuff,para, and db, they will not be able to do the damage that a pure monk could do. On the other side of the coin, if they could do the damage, they would not be able to use the vital debuff and other spells.However the pure monks still need to be slightly* nerfed.
There was another post about monk armor being reduced. I believe this is a good idea. So monks become more hybrid and a little more squishy. The only problem is leveling i guess. Leveling should be a team thing anyway!
As far as the dmg boost goes. It should be made so you can db somone 3 times. This would make it some what diffuclt to get the full effect of the db. For example lets say right now when u db somone u do 30% more dmg. IT should b made so the first db is 10%, 2nd is 20%, and 3rd is 30%.
About para...well it should remain in game BUT slightly reduce holy para and make it so when you get parad u RUN slow not RUN and TURN slow.
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I would also like to see TONS more content in this game!
TONS of leveling places
Weapons with some special perks ex. a plasma cannon that does ok damage but reduces the opponents stamina.
There should be more armor and more special items you can get from caves.
There should always be something to get/do.
Whoah, major deja vu. Wasn't Exotic in early neocron?
http://www.neocronnetwork.de/gameinfo/skills/images/Psi-Power.jpg
If by early you mean Beta, yes. PPU/APU/EPU was the way Neocron was setup in Neocron1 Beta. And if memory serves, they ended Beta with the APU/EPU/PPU setup, then went right into Retail with EPU removed, monk setups completely changed, and no public testing at all :rolleyes:
EPU may or may not work now, that summary won't do much to tell us whether it will or not. Nore details as well as an extended playtest are the only way to know.
And where's there "removal of the PSI-based Armor" suggestion :(
weaken ppus bye removing all monk armour
then introducing new monk armour that gives defence based on apu and psu
apu : psu : ppu
4:2:-1
an apu with 150 apu and 200 psu gets an over all armour rating of 1000 which should be equivilant to whatever armour they have now
EDIT(65 FORCE. 72 PERCING, 58 FIRE, 172 ENERGY, 42 XRAY, 0 POISON)
a ppu with 150 ppu and 200 psu would get 350 which would be one third as effective as the current monk armour
EDIT(22 FORCE. 25 PERCING, 20 FIRE, 70 ENERGY, 13 XRAY, 0 POISON)
a hyb with 100 100 200 would get 700 wich should be around 2 thirds of the defence there current line of holy armour gets them
EDIT(44 FORCE. 49 PERCING, 39 FIRE, 115 ENERGY, 30 XRAY, 0 POISON)
apu's wearing monk armour is powered by there pure hatride anger and agressive tendencies. aswell as partialy from there intelectual abilitys in the psionic area
ppu's rely on there ability to shelter them self from hard with modules rather than a manifestation of there hatrid
hybs rely on both
if you could make the armour's strength based on apu then you would make ppus more killable. while alowing solo apus to keep the defence they have.
and inorder to keep it fair after hitting em that hard in the armour department is make all modules over cast current modules restarting the timer (self cast only)
as for splitting to exotic and ppu... this would totaly nurf the solo PE. there i no point having a pe withough a shelter because you may aswell role a tank. by the time you anti buff sumbody. if you havent got a shelter you will be ripped to shreds...
i just cant see the reason to role a ppu if the 2 are seperated... therse just not enough to do
the pe's psi made up for his lack of armour and offencive powers... its there to fill in the holes
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If by early you mean Beta, yes. PPU/APU/EPU was the way Neocron was setup in Neocron1 Beta. And if memory serves, they ended Beta with the APU/EPU/PPU setup, then went right into Retail with EPU removed
Exotic Psi Use was replaced with Mental Steadiness in retail patch #160.
N
Nidhogg, if you have that all memorized, you scare me.
Nidhogg, if you have that all memorized, you scare me.
Ironically, I found it in a Google cache of one of -FN-'s own web pages. ;)
N
http://nc.synergyxr.net/info/patches/search_notes.php?q_string=Exotic&retail=on&Search=Search
Damn me. Being a droner in pretty much all of NC1 I paid little attention to PSI. I just remembered EPU in Beta and not in Retail. Reading those notes though, it sounds like we're going 'backwards' in attempt to 'balance'... I really think we need a new direction instead of an old one.
Yeah, nc.sxr has all the patchnotes, as does THN I think. KK dont seem to keep them on any of their sites these days.
Anyway, I really don't see how this EPU helps with anything, save adding more monks or turning PPUs into PPU/EPu Hybrids (so no change?)
I know I'm sounding repetive, but I really feel a better was is to look at the strength and effect of the entire defensive psi line.
So basically a PPU's spells would be: Heal, Shelter and Deflector? three spells to for class to use that would be extreamly dull and then EPU's spells would be Damage Boost, Paralysis, Creature Focus, Distract Mind, etc?
I see the only point in this being to prevent apu/ppu teams and hybrids, but it would certainly reduce the amount of monks.
I get the feeling that is the way it would work. The problem being is that you would then effectively have two ppu classes. Which could get messy indeed.
Yes I agree completely, but seeing as these are supposed to be tested... I think that having ppu spells with ppu/mst requirements and some with ppu/epu requirements would be the best way to go... and now that i think about it, having apu spells with apu/mst (ex. normal attacking spells) and some with apu/epu (ex. antibuffs) would also solve that problem.
If anyone disagrees with this, i want them to think long and hard about it before discouraging it.
Please use the new proposition thread.
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