View Full Version : Spy Proposition #1
Today and over the next week we’d like to see your feedback about several possible changes. These propositions concern specific aspects of the class roles. We will add more propositions throughout the week.
The spy could get access to a new type of nano-technology weapons or tools. We could see them have abilities like buffs, debuffs, long duration heals or higher resistances. However, using nano-bots could deactivate and PPU effects on the spy. This would help differentiate the spy from the private eye and reinforce his position as high-tech specialist.
Dribble Joy
24-03-06, 18:08
As long as their overall offence/defence status remains the same, then no real issues at the mo.
Longer duration heals are not an issue. Heal rate is though, but I think thta's a discussion for another thread.
awkward silence
24-03-06, 18:34
Sounds good. But as long as it doesnt become a spell system with a different name. Make it feel like tech and have it act different ie it could be an injection emote etc. and it could on your con stats how long it lasts (END?).
Again not just a spell called tech please :)
Debuffs....drools
Thumbs up for nano technology, could go very far if KK have a good imagination
Bugs Gunny
24-03-06, 19:22
The tech way or the psi way, i love it.
I like the proposition a lot. Just like they have said though try to make it different than just spells with a different name. I personally cant really think of a way to do that but it would be nice to not have aduplication of spells with different names. I think the easiest closest way to do so is just make the tools/tek/tech provide DIFFERENT buffs and abilities than the psi spells do.
Tools/tek, I believe, are going to be just like spells in essence. The differentiation will come from what tek/tech can do (unique abilities-totally different from the spells effects currently in game) and the emotes that go along with using tek/tech stuff.
I imagine there will be overlap in the sense that tek should have some healing tool etc...but tek should give spies a unique effect on the game not just another parashock named "bugzapper" with a different skin.:)
Dribble Joy
24-03-06, 20:33
I think the easiest closest way to do so is just make the tools/tek/tech provide DIFFERENT buffs and abilities than the psi spells do.
The potential problem there is that you will necessitate both tech and psi.
Imagine if you HAVE to have a spy, an EPU and a PPU per fighter at an OP fight.
Look..thats the way things go. You only have to have them if other people are using that setup. When it goes to "having" to have a certain setup or people at an OP fight, that kind of "necessity" is brought about by the players, not the characters. If you want to have every beneficial mod possible cast on a character you will need all the charater classes that can cast foreign buffs to do so,but it is the player that causes that, not the classes. Giving unique abilities to the spy wont make any kind of necessity...it will make the spy worth playing over something else if you prefer that STYLE of play.
The only way to avoid the "necessity" of having one of every character class in a fight is to make each class carbon copies of the others with different names for stuff. We all know that is pointless.
Notice right now that you "need" a ppu and a tank and a pe and a spy at an OP fight right now if you want to have all the abilities available and be competitive. Notice that the only reason rifle spies in particular( and other "worthless" characters) aren't critical at an OP fight is because of a game mechanic glitch (in this case draw distance). Any character that is not "needed" at an OP fight is because of some game mechanic glitch, not because they are inherently worthless at an OP fight.
Sounds good provided the heal/buff abilities are presented in a different way to the PSI. Carbon copys of the PPU buffs and heals in a tech format seems a bit on the pointless side, but if say they provided different resistances to the ppu buffs without overlaps that might be beneficial, perhaps in the mechanics of ammo based IE. personal nano injector tool tl 110 (tc) with 15 tl 25 (higher the tl better the heal less of them you can load into the injector) health regeneration nanos.
Upkeep might be a issue but thats what rec is for I suppose, can we slot the tool? What about swirlies? lol This being the case I would really like to see the SPY's PSI broken to the point of useless. In comes the injection glove :P Would like to see some nanotech weapons too that would really put spys out and away from the PE greatly. Something along the lines of a grenade launcher the pops out a cloud of drugflash inducing nanoprobes lol Perhaps a injection of probes that unpokes one of your impalnts at random lol Ok maybe not o_O Still big YEAH! for nanotechnology... :D
Dribble Joy
24-03-06, 21:59
You can't argue that something is only brought about by players and that therefore there's no problem, that's the whole point, the players play the game and will look for way to combine different things and things get out of balance.
You have to take into accoutn what people will do or you will get nowhere.
Specifying a role and focusing it on a single class or subclass will only work if that role itself is a benefit but not a necessity.
You must not need any skill or role in order to compete. A team of any size of any type of class (bar maybe the pure supporters) should be balanced with a team the same size of a mixture of 'role' chars.
Yes have role, yes have skills that are unique to a class/subclass, as long as they benefit themselves and/or their team equal to the inclusion of any other.
I'd argue against there only being worthless classes/subclasses because of 'glitches'. Yes riflers are at a disadvantage, but the game mechanics (balancing rather than engine) are as much to blame if not more so.
PEs and APUs in a straight fight (without DB) are reasonably balanced, yet at team level (where both have DB) which is seen more often?
Heavyporker
24-03-06, 22:00
Dear Crahn...
PLEASE don't make the techno branch a carbon copy of the psi branch. (you did this with Hack software, and frankly, that sucked).
Techno heal, like the Recreation bed field effect would be great, full HP heal at a quite slow rate... Something to boost your guys with, but not just a shadow of a PPU.
But no debuffs from jabbing at people or anything along these lines. Bringing back the Spirit mod would be acceptable, but restrictions put upon it, like its effectiveness decreases over distance (at close range, it breaks shelter, farther away it only reduces shelter strength).
being able to cause drugflash effects would be very, very good as well.
Dribble Joy
24-03-06, 22:03
Bringing back the Spirit mod would be acceptable, but restrictions put upon it, like its effectiveness decreases over distance (at close range, it breaks shelter, farther away it only reduces shelter strength).
being able to cause drugflash effects would be very, very good as well.
Dear KK...
Please don't listen to porker.
Seriously dude , that's like asking for para to make you blind and completely immoble, not to mention the whole spirit catastrophe.
Heavyporker
24-03-06, 22:07
I meant, give Spies a tool to cause drugflash effects, perhaps something like a yellow drug, non-stackable. Just something to give them an edge, something different from a shocker.
And I liked the idea of the Spirit mod. It just needed more thought in the implementation. Completely breaking the shield shouldn't come without signifcant risks, like coming up close. Hell, why not just move the spirit mod over to the rocket pistols, then it'd be more dangerous to use it than not to.
hehe Ok the drugflash thing was meant in jest :wtf: I guess I need to refrain from that kind of sarcasm. Can you imagine opfights with clouds of drugflashing nanos as far as the game engine will let you see... *sigh* Nothing would kill pvp faster.... I don't mind the idea of making nanotech weapons annoying, but not to the extent of drugflash heh.. How about some armor corrosion nanos? Give those reppers a reason to exist... Nanos that slow healing rate or sap endurance? Nanos that attack enemy nano equipment? Nanos that temporarily lower the hack req on something like wb etc. Hell nanos that increase the difficulty of a hack procedure, you could send them in as the enemy hacker goes to work. Lots of possibilities with that whole product line tbh.
-A
Apocalypsox
24-03-06, 22:58
For about a year now...i have suggested nano technology for a second healer type of class, so it is not limited to the gay ass monks as healers.
so my answer thus is...
HELLZ YEAH!
hmm, nano tech.
Idea remove spy buff from monks to the spys. maybe he const buff too
Today and over the next week we’d like to see your feedback about several possible changes. These propositions concern specific aspects of the class roles. We will add more propositions throughout the week.
The spy could get access to a new type of nano-technology weapons or tools. We could see them have abilities like buffs, debuffs, long duration heals or higher resistances. However, using nano-bots could deactivate and PPU effects on the spy. This would help differentiate the spy from the private eye and reinforce his position as high-tech specialist.
So far by what i can see, The gap between Spies and PE's is definetaly going to widen..
If SPY's get all this cool new gear, plus exclusive use of all the high end pistols and rifles, i can pretty much see SPY's becoming the next " one man, stealthing apu/ppu team" - atleast compared to the poor old PE anyway.
I hope all these gadgets and weapon restrictions are done properly. :(
PLEASE don't make the techno branch a carbon copy of the psi branch. (you did this with Hack software, and frankly, that sucked).
that's actually what I see when I imagine how KK will do it. I agree that I hope not as well. let's not have a shield tool thats a shelter with a new icon ;)
that's actually what I see when I imagine how KK will do it. I agree that I hope not as well. let's not have a shield tool thats a shelter with a new icon ;)
id prefer to see a whole different idea
a new stealth tool rendering the character moddle 100% transparent but still fully targetable
then when the player shoots his weapon he becomes 0% tranparent. and it slowly over the period of a second goes back to 100% this way he can snipe n hide n take another shot. and can fight with the added advantage of when he stops fiering he becomes invisable
giving the psy any more armour turns him into a tank or a pe. just because somthing is labeled sheild doesnnt mean its not just a fancie lable for a shelter
maby a devise that protects against one type of damage for a short period of time with no drug flash
i just dont want to see a rebranded shelter/deflector
Zovos is right!
Exactly how stealth should work.
Dribble Joy
25-03-06, 01:49
Actually, that is one of the better stealth changes that have come up.
id prefer to see a whole different idea
a new stealth tool rendering the character moddle 100% transparent but still fully targetable
then when the player shoots his weapon he becomes 0% tranparent. and it slowly over the period of a second goes back to 100% this way he can snipe n hide n take another shot. and can fight with the added advantage of when he stops fiering he becomes invisable
giving the psy any more armour turns him into a tank or a pe. just because somthing is labeled sheild doesnnt mean its not just a fancie lable for a shelter
maby a devise that protects against one type of damage for a short period of time with no drug flash
i just dont want to see a rebranded shelter/deflector
Agre with DJ here as well one of the best ideas for stealth in a long long time....
a new stealth tool rendering the character moddle 100% transparent but still fully targetable
then when the player shoots his weapon he becomes 0% tranparent. and it slowly over the period of a second goes back to 100% this way he can snipe n hide n take another shot. and can fight with the added advantage of when he stops fiering he becomes invisable
i like that a lot as well.. perhaps stealth would last longer with this change
I like this idea a lot. As someone with three spies, all that can make spies a hit (hard) and run(fast) character rather than an epic battler, I'm in favour of.
Hit, run away before insane damage, quickly re-heal, run back. Sounds great :)
and make him like those obnoxious little guys in FEAR... ;)
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/642/642462/fear-20050816035324554.jpg
I think Dirus, the spys should be given the ability to go into PRONE position.
And they should be the only ones.
EDIT
Totally agree on the new stealth idea it is UBA.
The Spy needs his shelter taken away from him, as well as his insane Xray PA bonus.
That is all. Nerfing of the PE's ability to use Spy weapons is what would boost the Spy's role. Not some nano red harrings.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.
Right now the spy has NO advantages to him.
NO DB, no PARA.
Spys are already frail ATM (a self buff spy is weaker the a ppu buffed APU ?? :wtf: )
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.
Right now the spy has NO advantages to him.
NO DB, no PARA.
Spys are already frail ATM (a self buff spy is weaker the a ppu buffed APU ?? :wtf: )
well duh about the ppu buffed apu, a ppu buffed anything> a self buffed anything, on the other hand I agree with your points about nano tech and what they should/should not do.
Edit: How ironic would it be if nanos were just s/d and a healing nano. Spys would be new holy hybrids but with oblit. That would really be funny......For like a day.
Heavyporker
25-03-06, 06:58
Spies shouldn't be the only ones to get /prone.
Just that rifles would be the only weapons that are usable in /prone.
For anyone else that uses /prone, it would disarm them and lay them on the ground.
Be wonderful for stealthy observation (indians in the grass!) or emoting something out ( a day out on the beach?).
Fuck, I want to use /prone on my damn recreation beds!
yeah heavy i dont know how you didnt think about it before me ...
maybe you know all should get prone
Today and over the next week we’d like to see your feedback about several possible changes. These propositions concern specific aspects of the class roles. We will add more propositions throughout the week.
The spy could get access to a new type of nano-technology weapons or tools. We could see them have abilities like buffs, debuffs, long duration heals or higher resistances. However, using nano-bots could deactivate and PPU effects on the spy. This would help differentiate the spy from the private eye and reinforce his position as high-tech specialist.
Nice guys... Finally the spy gets his gadgets. Brainstorm these in KK freely :p since you have given us some wonderfull and fun ideas in the past ;) Surprise us :)
How much you want to bet that Spy's become the new PEs and we start this all over again for a new generation :)
yup.its gone all.this shyt all over again
Stealth, shelter, nano freak proning self-healing x-bow using spy with up'd-defence :cool: dude u would be invincible if you used all them skills in a time like manner oh this is gone be funny
Apocalypsox
25-03-06, 12:20
if all classes got prone...assman would be back in an instant. he would lay on all the dead strippers and sex them while laying down. 8|
I don't like injections. I prefer shields generators. And i think it's more adapted to the spy ! Why not injections and nano bots for the Tank, but for the spy ?
What will be the associated visual effect by buffing with nano bots ?
id prefer to see a whole different idea
a new stealth tool rendering the character moddle 100% transparent but still fully targetable
then when the player shoots his weapon he becomes 0% tranparent. and it slowly over the period of a second goes back to 100% this way he can snipe n hide n take another shot. and can fight with the added advantage of when he stops fiering he becomes invisable
This idea and
I think Dirus, the spys should be given the ability to go into PRONE position.
And they should be the only ones.
This idea are excellent.
Perhaps only allow someone to go into a prone position when holding a sniper rifle, when they unequip it they stand back up.
ok if sheld generaters are the way to go
then they should heal at the speed of say a capped lvl3 heal... have about 50 hp or so and when shot to 0 you start hurting the spy and then the damage comes of the sheild THEN the spy
but dont relable a shelter because that would be rediculouse
Ehh, new tech-toys - good.
Tech-toys that just replace existing psi effects - bad.
I'd like to see spies with a few new thing they could do to make them useful. Also, on the subject of psi-bsaed defence - I've already said I'd like to see it weakend - but could we possibly design the implants line-up so that spies are somewhat dirven to choose between capping/using top TL weapon and being able to say shelter?
Also, perhaps quite a few of these toys shoulld have team-bsaed rolls, rather than just buffing up the spy?
Also, any possibility of developing the "combat engineer" roll thats been talked up by FN and Bugs, among others? Driving, placing turrets other items, generally providing a support role in team-based combat, not by buffing other players as much as assiting them?
Synchronize
25-03-06, 17:58
I certainly find it a nice idear
But be care than the nano-tech cant mixed with PPU buf, because if they can the spy will became too powerfull (and i play more spy than every other class)
Peharps a Malus for PPU Buf when you uses Tech buf (and vis versa)
It certainly made spy/Pe different. if the nano-tech are realy different than the Psy module.
And for stealth, i agree, a stealth when you became invisible but can be targeting will be realy nice (except steath versus mobs, but peharps you can find a way around)
I somewhat have an Idea to differentiate the Spy from the PE... What about a blink tool?? :D Give the Spy the Stealth Tool, why PEs are not as good, and can only blink!
Of course they would have the possibility of using theire weapons when they are on they appear, but unable when they unblink! :D
Yup so far i like the suggestion put forward.
Nano bots, that would add an awesome aspect to the game with a huge array of possibilites. But it cant just be another range of spells with a different name like how the hacknet weapons turned out.
Also spies are meant to be great hit and run assination experts.
How about if their stealth tools can be activated and deactivated.
Using drugs to break the stealth effect that a piece of technology creates is abit crappy imo.
OFC the destealth would have to have a fairly long time delay between uses so that ppl didnt just take the piss with it.
At the moment a spy who dont use shelter in pvp is a dead spy. But should they even have the ability to use such a defensive PSI spell.
Maybe, if anything spies should be kept to using the low lvl buffs and heals that for instance tanks can currently access.
Now we are trying to move spies more towards a Hi-Tech role like they should be so as a replacement for shelter how about some kind of personal energy field generator that can be activated by the spy and which will absorb a certain about of energy/fire/xray/force damage.
It can be reactivated as and when needed but requires some type of energy cells to power it. Some of which is comsumed each time the field is activated. That means spies will have to carry not only their ammo but a supply of energy cells.
Just a thought anyway
High tech specialist sounds like a great idea but please dont simply give some psi modules a shiney new name - tools should be used which would have to have various nano types loaded into them like ammo then selected and "fired" at yourself perhaps with an injection animation.
Making them nullify the psionic effects also sounds like a good idea as it would restrict overpowering the spy when they can have both a tech and psi heal/buff/shelter in effect - as for shelters a shield generator would be nice which rather than lessening the damage done to the spy would absorb a certian amount of damage itself untill it breaks. Sort of like the shields in the SW:KOTOR games.
If we are going to add this tech stuff, then I think it should do something differnt, not just replicate what can be done with psi - if so, we may as well just give spies teh revlevant spells. I'd like to see spies making similar use of psi as they do now, basic buffs and shields, maybe making shelter more easily availbible - I discussed the possibility of exchanging shelter for better damage or vice versa - but then these tech tools (the lower end of which PEs should be capableof using, if they choose to spec for) should boost the spies in other ways. Give them a damage output kick, a runspeed boost, aiming advantage, brigh green glow, whatever.
Heavyporker
26-03-06, 18:17
why the hell do people think that only one class should get an emote/ability?
Make it fair. Every class is able to use that prone. As I said earlier, only rifles would be usable in prone. Any other weapon, including psi (doesn't make sense to me, though, but I'll concede this point) is disarmed.
There.
Now people can use /prone for other purposes than sniping.
awkward silence
26-03-06, 18:50
why the hell do people think that only one class should get an emote/ability?
Make it fair. Every class is able to use that prone. As I said earlier, only rifles would be usable in prone. Any other weapon, including psi (doesn't make sense to me, though, but I'll concede this point) is disarmed.
There.
Now people can use /prone for other purposes than sniping.
Why couldnt pistols be used in prone?
Apocalypsox
26-03-06, 19:51
why the fuck would you want to use pistols in prone?
Problem 1: when usin pistols your generally running around like a mofo shooting your opponent
Problem 2: Most pistols have a visable fire, so you shoot someone from a cliff, a sniper will just go prone and pop your cute lil head into about 5 peices.
Problem 3: You wanna get ur ass owned by another pistol/HC char cause your layin down and take 3-5 seconds to get up?
maybe make a new type of device for spy : the Personal drone
this baby would need TC to use, as well as high INT.
would be available in the offense/defense categories :
-offense attacks (like a cluster)
-deffense creates a TECH SHIELD around ur body.
when u cast it (a bit like a drone) it hovers around you and does it job.
you turn it off by placing it back in ur iventory.
anyone can only use them one at the time.
they can be targeted/destroyed.
EDIT
oh yeah and can only take a certain amount of damage, after wich, it would desactivate and needs to be repaired.
unless it is targeted/destroyed. you only need to rep it and it takes nanites.
think of it as the spy's soulcluster, only this does a vital job.
then u can make all sorts like para, or even ress/cstr ones that does a certain amount of clicks for you provided you have cybes gel in ur inv.
you could still use ur F7 even when using that baby.
awkward silence
26-03-06, 22:50
why the fuck would you want to use pistols in prone?
Problem 1: when usin pistols your generally running around like a mofo shooting your opponent
Problem 2: Most pistols have a visable fire, so you shoot someone from a cliff, a sniper will just go prone and pop your cute lil head into about 5 peices.
Problem 3: You wanna get ur ass owned by another pistol/HC char cause your layin down and take 3-5 seconds to get up?
I know its not a viable tactic but it should be possible tbh
Today and over the next week we’d like to see your feedback about several possible changes. These propositions concern specific aspects of the class roles. We will add more propositions throughout the week.
The spy could get access to a new type of nano-technology weapons or tools. We could see them have abilities like buffs, debuffs, long duration heals or higher resistances. However, using nano-bots could deactivate and PPU effects on the spy. This would help differentiate the spy from the private eye and reinforce his position as high-tech specialist.
soudbns really cool
give the spy the ability to put more implants than the others
give the spy PSI ability ONLY via implants (ie: special PSICORE for spy)
maybe make a new type of device for spy : the Personal drone
this baby would need TC to use, as well as high INT.
would be available in the offense/defense categories :
-offense attacks (like a cluster)
-deffense creates a TECH SHIELD around ur body.
when u cast it (a bit like a drone) it hovers around you and does it job.
you turn it off by placing it back in ur iventory.
anyone can only use them one at the time.
they can be targeted/destroyed.
EDIT
oh yeah and can only take a certain amount of damage, after wich, it would desactivate and needs to be repaired.
unless it is targeted/destroyed. you only need to rep it and it takes nanites.
think of it as the spy's soulcluster, only this does a vital job.
then u can make all sorts like para, or even ress/cstr ones that does a certain amount of clicks for you provided you have cybes gel in ur inv.
you could still use ur F7 even when using that baby.
There's no need for this though..
actualy one more brain slot for a spy would be a great idea
actualy one more brain slot for a spy would be a great idea
While it would be very nice to have, i just need to think for a second or two what i would like to add to my spy if i would have that. And i dare to say, i would find it unbalancing...
Please use the new proposition thread.
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