View Full Version : Private Eye Proposition #2
We’d like to see your feedback about several possible changes. These propositions concern specific aspects of the class roles. We will add more propositions throughout the week.
We would like to bring the Private Eye back to an all-rounder role - we'll have to make some cuts, be that damage booster, weapon availabilities etc... we'll probably bring up the stealth tool issue as its own topic.
But as no class should have a severe disadvantage, we're looking for more ways to give the PE a unique ability.
Besides pushing him as a direct supporter as was already suggested, we thought it would be possible to combine the nano technology suggested for the spy with the PE's psi capability. Basing it on PSI, T-C and INT would make its effective usage only available to the PE, giving him his own special ability. The focus would probably be on lowering psi effects, like make shelter or buffs less effective (not remove them). It should be useful but not a deciding factor in pvp.
If class restrictions arent used, then the PE could theoretically use any of the new toys in development.
They key then, is designing the implant line so they are forced to choose what direction to go in. Boost dex and PC/RC to the max to use best pistols? Boost int and tech skills to use nano-toys to be effective in combat, with a lower TL of weapon? Boost STR and use HC/MC weapons, with the advantage of some psi skills too? Boost PSI and be a tougher character with the ability to support others (using spells up to rez/blessed level perhaps?) but losing the ability to do significant damage.
I think to really pull that off, some tweaking of a PEs Levels are necessary, but it could make for a great class, and less predictable that the average PE of today.
Sounds reasonable but for a unique toy for PEs id like to see weapons that require relativly high point specing throughout INT, DEX and STR primarily limiting them to PEs and possibly a PE Requirement just to make sure.
Like rapid fire mini cannons or something like that. Also combat engineer (higher defence, less effectivness) tools and items would give them another PE only toy, again might have to have that PE req on them though.
Basing it on PSI, T-C and INT would make its effective usage only available to the PE, giving him his own special ability. The focus would probably be on lowering psi effects, like make shelter or buffs less effective (not remove them). It should be useful but not a deciding factor in pvp.
I like this idea but would it be a psi ability or a nano ability? other than that question I think this will def bring back pe's into the OP situation which is a definite plus for me
No nanites for the PE, please! The PE class is strong enough as it is. Remember the other classes get re-balanced, too, so there's no need for a boost here.
Give PE access to more rares and put the DB out of his hands, leave him stealth.
giving him access(and restricting him) to more options trough implants.
For instance a HC/MC PE should never use Tank armor, as a STR setup chars has nice PSU so they can have a real good PSI.
PSI PEs that use blessed and rezz stuff trough imps sounds fun.
My point behind this is the usage of the rare gives PE the chance to really come close to being like the class without having ALL its major advantages.
Make DEX PEs unable to hack.
Make STR PEs unable to use tank armor. (give that armor a CON req)
Make PSI PEs unable to use rare guns.
If you force the PEs to use DB then all the PEs will be generic a too much alike.
Jump packs? Seraphim PE PA? i say yes pls to this =)
please?
If class restrictions arent used
Profession Restrictions > Class Restrictions
I hate Class & Faction Restrictions. Melee PA should have a "Berzerker" restriction, not Tank considering a PE can choose the Berzerker profession. And Faction Restrictions should be limited to a level of Sympathy, not whether or not you ARE the Faction.
If things had Profession Restrictions and item reqs were set accordingly, the PE could be the true Jack of all Trades without much work at all on KKs part. Could they reach higher level stuff, yeah - if they drug to hell and back. Will they be overpowered? Well, isn't that A) temporary and B) the point of drugging?
Jump packs? Seraphim PE PA? i say yes pls to this =)
But then there would be "general use" items like this. It doesn't really fit into a Profession so it should get reqs that make sense... mid level INT, STR, and DEX. A Spy might be able to drug into it, a Tank might be able to 4/5 drug into it, but the PE can use it perfectly. So it's not restricted in any stupid class-sense, but it's pretty much for a certain class. There should be a whole line of vehicles that are PE-geared. They're smarter than tanks but stronger than spies so they should be able to drive AND gun some heavier artillery than the trike... or it just might be that some of the vehicles *cough* combat hover, trike, wheeler *cough* are just completely crappy for PvP and need a rework :p
I can't really make that many suggestions as i've only been back 2 weeks. But I think the main thing would be to restrict the higher TL weapons and keep DB. Maybe throw in another rare rifle/pistol to keep things interesting, I used to always get bored with judge/libby.
I think their PSI is fine as is, and the lower level stealth tool only would be sufficient.
Make DEX PEs unable to hack.
Make STR PEs unable to use tank armor. (give that armor a CON req)
Make PSI PEs unable to use rare guns.
If you force the PEs to use DB then all the PEs will be generic a too much alike.
Welcome to Bore-o-con, have a happy and productive day.
Most PEs are the same nowadays anyway.
Give PE access to more rares and put the DB out of his hands, leave him stealth.
giving him access(and restricting him) to more options trough implants.
For instance a HC/MC PE should never use Tank armor, as a STR setup chars has nice PSU so they can have a real good PSI.
PSI PEs that use blessed and rezz stuff trough imps sounds fun.
My point behind this is the usage of the rare gives PE the chance to really come close to being like the class without having ALL its major advantages.
Make DEX PEs unable to hack.
Make STR PEs unable to use tank armor. (give that armor a CON req)
Make PSI PEs unable to use rare guns.
If you force the PEs to use DB then all the PEs will be generic a too much alike.
Kame, I really dont agree. Remember that a PE with strength implants doesn't have access to the medium belts. Making the tank armors nice to have to compensate. Additionaly a MC/HC PE really doesn't have access to powerful weapons without really drugging himself up (3 drugs to use ravager or a Blade of Ceres) and doesn't have access to weapons such as the CS or the Devils Grace or the Paw of bear. So even if the defence is higher, the damage output is lower. In my opignion the HC and MC PEs are the only type of PE which are almost balanced. They might in fact be a little bit underpowered even!
Oh and you think that DEX PEs are balanced as well ?
DEX PEs are far from balanced, and that tank armor on PE is OK as long as they dont use a lot of rare.
The outcome as i stated before will either be :
PEs with DB that use non rare.
Rare using PEs that doesnt use DB.
LOL ?
I suggest you read my first post correctly.
Understand that they WILL rethink every weapon/item/armor over.
This is what i think PEs should be if the rare outcome happens.i.e. PEs get access to rav/cs with less drugs.
Kame, I really dont agree. Remember that a PE with strength implants doesn't have access to the medium belts. Making the tank armors nice to have to compensate. Additionaly a MC/HC PE really doesn't have access to powerful weapons without really drugging himself up (3 drugs to use ravager or a Blade of Ceres) and doesn't have access to weapons such as the CS or the Devils Grace or the Paw of bear. So even if the defence is higher, the damage output is lower. In my opignion the HC and MC PEs are the only type of PE which are almost balanced. They might in fact be a little bit underpowered even!
That's one comment I totally agree with.
They might sound balanced now but, when the rework with items happen, the only real concern for us will be the outcome of it, be that the possible setups.
OK STR PEs might be the most balanced ATM but then again all that will change !!!
The STR setup we now know will make place for the new and (hopefully) balanced STR PEs.
I think the focus of these forums is us telling them what we would like to see, not what we think is balance now, as the fact that we have this whole balance discussion is because nothing is balanced !
Could you guys focus on the future PE instead of the actual PE ?
Brain Storming gave me those ideas...
PE psi/nanotech which gives the PE the abbility to slightly debuff as stated, but also maybe to deacrease the strength of heals, but that based on the TL of the heal, so it doesn't become overpowered in 1 and 1 pvp.
Another interesting tool could be some kind of mini anti stealth.
Another idea could be to give the PE the opportunity to remove effects such as DB and Para, or have tools which prevent those from beeing as effective for a certain amount of time.
Having Psi/nanotech to improve defence and nanotech...
Maybe you could have different lines, where the EPU skill comes in. So that for exemple if you are a Debuffer PE, you dont have access to the Empower your defences line, ect...
Dribble Joy
29-03-06, 21:34
Yet again my worry is with these debuff options PEs would be too powerful in solo (and of limited use in a team).
As for weapon restrictions, again item and skill reworks could do it by default, the top end of weapons simply unavailiable due to dex reqs.
Yet again my worry is with these debuff options PEs would be too powerful in solo (and of limited use in a team).
DJ u worry too damn much man...i think that it would be a good idea and the part aboout them bein too powerful on 1 v 1 the only chars that would be hurt from that debuff situation is the spy and he is gettin a shitload of nano shit that will prolly help him in 1 v 1...the tank and the apu dont have ne kind of buff on 1 v 1 so i dont kno where u are comin wit ure worries on 1 v 1...
but tbh i cant really say whether it is good or not until the test server comes around...but as for now it sounds like a good idea because it would def bring more pes to op wars cuz as ppus/apus or epus/ppus or wuteva the hell will happen are tryin to antibuff and freeze and kill guys the pe can do his own thing and casta slight debuff thing on a char and kill the guy witout neones help...which is wut the pe is designed for...doin things by himself
Dribble Joy
29-03-06, 22:53
Well PEs might end up being too powerful against spies, unless PEs would NEED their debuffs to fight spies.
Also, jet packs ftw.
lol jet packs as in flyin in the air? that would bring a wholke new experience to PE's lol...imagine flyin in a bomber and all of a sudden....SPLAT!.."shit we just had a Private Eye hit our windshield!"
Jet Packs.. The netcode has a hard enough time dealing with Gravlifts atm, don't need to deal with the mess Jet Packs would bring. And this is not a "space" MMORPG.
Dribble Joy
30-03-06, 05:21
I was thinking a tool that alters your movement type to that of a drone, glider or bomber/carrier rather than programming a whole new one. In a way an invisible vehicle that you use. As the movement type can allready be changed this shouldn't be too hard to implement.
lol yea i doubted a jetpack would be put in..but that would be funny :p
We’d like to see your feedback about several possible changes. These propositions concern specific aspects of the class roles. We will add more propositions throughout the week.
We would like to bring the Private Eye back to an all-rounder role - we'll have to make some cuts, be that damage booster, weapon availabilities etc... we'll probably bring up the stealth tool issue as its own topic.
But as no class should have a severe disadvantage, we're looking for more ways to give the PE a unique ability.
Besides pushing him as a direct supporter as was already suggested, we thought it would be possible to combine the nano technology suggested for the spy with the PE's psi capability. Basing it on PSI, T-C and INT would make its effective usage only available to the PE, giving him his own special ability. The focus would probably be on lowering psi effects, like make shelter or buffs less effective (not remove them). It should be useful but not a deciding factor in pvp.
As soon as you keep things ballanced, and you give something to the PE for the DB you take, Im fine. I dont know what you have in mind, but you do risk killing a whole class here
Bugs Gunny
30-03-06, 08:08
The killing the whole class risk is allways there, for all classes.
Let's just wait for the testserver and see what happens.
I'd like them to test all the ideas on the test server, before rejecting them. No harm done
I'd like them to test all the ideas on the test server, before rejecting them. No harm done
my thoughts exactly...
awkward silence
30-03-06, 09:48
Im scared to shit TBH, since the PE is the only class i love to play and i believe they are getting a huge change. Perhaps things will be balanced in the end but i like the playstyle i have now. Selfish yes but...
I hear a lot of people are already quiting because of those news, which is stupid tbh, but I guess they will all come back in more numbers, provided KK makes new gadgets and introduce new fun in the system. Another idea I just have is for the netlag/clipping issue:
Why dont we try nerf overall speed of our characters, raise reticle closing times, and maybe introduce a timer for no reticle users, or just eliminate monk aim to a new improved reticle system, universal for all classes?
Jet Packs.. The netcode has a hard enough time dealing with Gravlifts atm, don't need to deal with the mess Jet Packs would bring. And this is not a "space" MMORPG.
Jump packs not jet packs, this is a cyberpunk mmo not a space 1999 ripoff :p
Dribble Joy
30-03-06, 11:12
Jump packs would be even harder to code tan a jet pack, besides any balance implications.
ok how about strapping a drone on the back of a PE??
Bugs Gunny
30-03-06, 11:26
Yeah, would be cool to launch yourself at the commander in MC5, screaming "BAAAANZAAAAAIIIIII !!!!!"
Dribble Joy
30-03-06, 11:49
/set kamidrone_kill_self 1 :p
Pretty hard to tell how to make PE special and fit.
i wrote that on the SPY thread, give the PE a better VHC repair and shield utilitie so its harder to get nuked out of a VHC
and let him use his guns on a bike ;)
Profession Restrictions > Class Restrictions
If things had Profession Restrictions and item reqs were set accordingly...And what happens when you wanted to change profession? For example Unrael (my Pistol Spy) appears as a Rigger in the Runner Information part of the database... There would have to be some sort of NPC that checks a specific skill of the runner speaking to the NPC, and should be able to change the profession of the runner for free, as long as they meet the requirements for being switched to the specific profession.
So if a Spy or PE starts off as a Rigger, and wanted to switch to the Infiltraitor profession to be able to use the new sexy Infiltraitor-only implants, the Spy or PE would need to have n (I would probably reccommend at least 115 or 120 base maybe?) Pistol Combat skill for the NPC to change his or her profession.
No nanites for the PE, please! The PE class is strong enough as it is. Remember the other classes get re-balanced, too, so there's no need for a boost here.
But they also said they would be reducing the PE's shelter effectiveness so maybe it would work out ok.
All I'm going to say is the PE is too powerfull with certain things like
Damage boost with higher TL weapons
Lowtech PE resists less posion while using high TL weapons, this is because the difference between 112 resist and 125 resist is so small. Also the the ammount of damage on your shelter seems to make no difference what so ever as long as it is over 300%
I think i like this proposition better than the first one, giving the PE his own special abilitys sounds fair to me.
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