View Full Version : Hitbox System #2
We have been going over your feedback about the hitboxes and would like to revise our propositions. As always, we'd like you to comment :)
The basic idea is that it would probably be interesting if damage done to specific body parts (hitboxes) would have different effects, in addition to dealing damage. These effects would be removed as the damage is healed away. Also please keep in mind that these effects would be adjusted once they would be patched on the testserver. The amount of damage required to make an effect appear, the strength of the effects etc. would all be tweaked.
Hits in the legs would still reduce run speed, but less than they currently do. Leg shots could also be reduced in damage to offset the advantage gained from shooting someone in the legs (possibly 80% of normal damage).
Hits in the chest would either slightly increase the amount of stamina consumed by any actions that use stamina or maybe reduce the maximum amount of stamina available to the character. This effect wouldn't be very strong as the chest is the easiest hitbox to hit. Damage would be at 100%.
Hits in the head would not have a special effect, but instead the damage would be higher than normal (possibly 120% of normal damage).
:o
I think that's perfect. :)
Apocalypsox
28-04-06, 16:25
...what he said ^
omg, KK never came up with that, thats a good idea. thats not normal
sanityislost
28-04-06, 16:52
simple...and a great idea
may even force people to spec endurance
SiL ..:..
Asurmen Spec Op
28-04-06, 17:06
I like it
So the effects will be present, but not huge and shouldnt swing the combat too much in one persons favour? Great.
Dribble Joy
28-04-06, 17:33
Yup, simple and not overpowering or too unfair.
Sounds like a great scheme.
Looks nice and simple - i like it.
Here's hoping it will be totaly balanced / complete before it hits retail.
Looks nice and simple - i like it.
Here's hoping it will be totaly balanced / complete before it hits retail.
Here's hoping I win the lottery this week... without even buying a ticket.
I'd much prefer it without any effects on the torso.
I'd rather put head damage to 110%. I have no problem hitting peoples heads usually. It's just a matter of practice. Though those crouching+shooting bastards really annoy me, the second i hit fire they crouch and my prefectly aimed burst goes off into the sky. :lol:
I'm also up for the slowdown thing, but only if its a very slight slowdown and not affecting turning speed. Also there seems to be a problem with taking out legs in 3rd, it's so much more easier in 1st person. I think its cause you are fighting up so close that most gunshots simply dont reach the legs and get registered as body hits before. Another thing overpowering APUs tbh. :(
And please please please forget that idea about sta loss when hitting the chest. Its already a pain in the ass for most classes as it is now.
Bugs Gunny
28-04-06, 22:55
No stamina loss and it sounds good.
The stamina loss will give ppl who suck at PvP a bit of an equalizer tho. :p
As long as APU spells get reticles and become balanced, fine. Otherwise, 120% damage for doing headshots, bollocks to that if monks still don't need to lock on. That would be an insane bonus for using the already almighty Holy Lightning, or being a monk in general.
Or just have monks always hit the torso. Assuming the sta drain isn't implemented I think that might work quite well personally. No more overpowered monks =P
ashley watts
29-04-06, 11:30
well lol APU's are gonna get away with a lot aint they, 2 blasts to your head and u do half damage sounds dam crazy :/ especially in the wastelands :( but it would be kool give it a go i suppose
Hey, correct if I am wrong, but didn't we had those two factors implemented already, except for stamina loss of course?
For legshots to be of any use, there's gotta be a compensation for someone to even try aiming this hitbox. Therefore the effect should stay as it is.
Headshots are also very skilled shots and must remain like they are now, meaning giving a lot more damage as they do already.
Stamina loss is yet another factor or complexity that needs to be factored precisely into the system but needs a lot of fine tuning so that classes that are nerfed at the moment like spies don't anymore.
Stamina loss is yet another idea that adds in ones offensive strategy but needs a lot of testing. Before we apply more complexity in the system, have we solved netlag first, for instance?
Hey, correct if I am wrong, but didn't we had those two factors implemented already, except for stamina loss of course?
For legshots to be of any use, there's gotta be a compensation for someone to even try aiming this hitbox. Therefore the effect should stay as it is.
Headshots are also very skilled shots and must remain like they are now, meaning giving a lot more damage as they do already.
The problem with the way leg shots work atm is that they are overpowered. It can decide the fight in the first few shots and that's not right. As for head shots, I'm not sure these currently do do more damage - certainly doesn't sound like it to me form the way Thanatos phrases it.
Stamina loss is yet another factor or complexity that needs to be factored precisely into the system but needs a lot of fine tuning so that classes that are nerfed at the moment like spies don't anymore.
Stamina loss is yet another idea that adds in ones offensive strategy but needs a lot of testing. Before we apply more complexity in the system, have we solved netlag first, for instance?
The thing is, it's not really much of a strategic part of PvP if it's an effect on the main hit box area. IMO the idea of effects on hit boxes should be a SLIGHT bonus for careful aiming. What's the point of leg shots reducing run speed if torso shots reduce stamina, which in turn will eventually reduce run speed (and from the sounds of it, while it might not have an effect for the first coupel of shots, it could end up basically leaving the opponent with no stamina - which means they can't run OR shoot).
well lol APU's are gonna get away with a lot aint they, 2 blasts to your head and u do half damage sounds dam crazy :/ especially in the wastelands :( but it would be kool give it a go i suppose
That's assuming APU's get a recticle and can aim at the head. Plus if a bit of extra line-of-sight coding is put in to try and combat the still-locked-after-opponent-ran-away effect that seems to happen then it shouldn't make APU's overpowered.
I'd rather have the head hitbox made so it strictly only includes the head and neck, but does 150% normal dmg
As for head shots, I'm not sure these currently do do more damage - certainly doesn't sound like it to me form the way Thanatos phrases it.don't take his word for it, I'm pretty sure jini is right. This is practicly the same as what we already have, apart from (maybe) a slight reduction in how badly leg shots hurt, and including a stupid loss of stamina for all non leg/head shots...
Personally I really didn't like the idea after reading it, but then seeing the next 10/15 or so posts saying they did like it, I'll give parts of it a try.. but really the stamina loss for chest shots is a tad silly, giving a bonus for not trying to aim at a harder target.. it would fuck melees.
Also as someone else said, all monk shots should be chest aimed to make up for the lack of a reticle, at the moment melee weapons cant effect different hit boxes (correct me if im wrong...) so why should apu.
sounds pretty good to me...as long as apus just have one hitbox...cuz twoblows to the head for an apu and u would prolly be almost dead....not sure i like that
sounds pretty good to me...as long as apus just have one hitbox...cuz twoblows to the head for an apu and u would prolly be almost dead....not sure i like that Plz use your brain. They are changing everything, including APU dmg.
I like the idea and i think people who have complained about it misunderstand some points for one thing KK did say then plan to re-introduce aiming for monks unless of course im mistaken. Also no one specks endurance atm, maybe having to is a good idea? Also if you read the post they said they would tweak the effects to make sure it did not unbalance pvp :) so really there is nothing to worry about.
The thing is, it's not really much of a strategic part of PvP if it's an effect on the main hit box area. IMO the idea of effects on hit boxes should be a SLIGHT bonus for careful aiming. What's the point of leg shots reducing run speed if torso shots reduce stamina, which in turn will eventually reduce run speed (and from the sounds of it, while it might not have an effect for the first coupel of shots, it could end up basically leaving the opponent with no stamina - which means they can't run OR shoot).
well the point is that it gives some sort of reward. A CS tank that knew how to aim would kill you in no time, back in the times when CS tanks still existed in game :mad: and I can still remember myself when i was using the TL92 aiming legs, it was so fun.. I still do that :lol:
I dont like it, lack of stamina means problem running/shooting of your not carefull with ur stam.
ANOTHER THING TO SLOW YOU DOWN !!!
PPL i mean forget what you read on paper, just imagine it in-game...
Forget what YOU are reading on paper and test it IN-GAME first. You have no idea how much this is going to effect pvp. You assume it's going to be a big loss.. Don't 'imagine' it, how about actually testing it first?
well the point is that it gives some sort of reward. A CS tank that knew how to aim would kill you in no time, back in the times when CS tanks still existed in game :mad: and I can still remember myself when i was using the TL92 aiming legs, it was so fun.. I still do that :lol:
What's the reward when they can aim at the torso or the legs and still cause non-hitpoint damage (and in both cases here speed, and for the torso even worse all actions).
The tanks should be rewarded for being able to aim at the feet or at the head - being able to atleast hit the opponent should kind of be a given and need no other "reward" than that you've hurt the opponent.
Forget what YOU are reading on paper and test it IN-GAME first. You have no idea how much this is going to effect pvp. You assume it's going to be a big loss.. Don't 'imagine' it, how about actually testing it first?
We'd love to - but unfortunately there's no test server with these changes on (yet?) - for now KK are asking us to DISCUSS these changes on paper
I wish people would stop all this "we need to be rewarded with this that and the other" comments, the rewards are there. If you can aim well, you get 120% head damage. If you can aim well, you can take out the legs because the 80% damage won't matter, since you can hit most hits.
Heavyporker
30-04-06, 00:26
Doesn't stamina regenerate quite rapidly?
Don't most hardcore pvpers already carry stamina boosters, just so they can top off before they let off a long burst with their pistol/rifle/cannon? ESPECIALLY these who carry gatling cannons?
Frankly, reduction in slowdown from leg damage, stamina drain from chest damage, and a little extra damage from head hits... sounds like these changes absolutely rock.
Well hopefully I'll be carrying less spells, so I can fit some boosters into my QB :p
What's the reward when they can aim at the torso or the legs and still cause non-hitpoint damage (and in both cases here speed, and for the torso even worse all actions).
The tanks should be rewarded for being able to aim at the feet or at the head - being able to atleast hit the opponent should kind of be a given and need no other "reward" than that you've hurt the opponent.
The reward is according to your skill, we need to focus and gift skill:
1. aiming on a small hitbox like the head will give you 120% in damage over torso. I think this is what we have already now and it works fine, that is for burst type weapons, but then kk change this a lot. Anyway it works as intended, but maybe we gotta decide which guns WILL be able to use this feature. If you ask me, we need to go back as it was long time ago i think a couple of years back where only Guns were allowed these features. Monks are out of the question, unless they give them a reticule as well, and then like normal guns Not all spells
2. aiming on feet, again as a skill shot, remains on runners strategy to either go for slowed movement of the opponent and less damage or try he head/torso. Again I have abused this system teasing friends and I think it works really fine, as it should we must leave it as it is further nerfing it will end up in none using it. Besides in an op war this is not an issue wit ppu heals already. Certainly it needs a lot of testing with the new game
3. The torso/stamina hits is yet another strategic spot which is interesting if fine tuned. We cant say about this feature since we have never used it before, I can guess that it will kill spies if they left that way and maybe some lowtech pes/spies using high stamina drain weapons.
There is however a single reason that needs to be said: It's the only other area in one's body left and if you aim your weapon you either gonna hit the high skilled head/legs or torso. Therefore what you get from hitting this area in the body should have the least effect of the other two
You know, there is the rather large issue if Skill Gradient, which hasn't been addressed at all yet in these discussions, but is hugley relevant to this discussion. Personally, I tend to favour a more gentle skill gradient, although I am sure plenty here want it as steep as possible.
well all these can built a nice game based in an already successful foundation cmaster, but for me the most important of all, the only one thing that needs to get sorted asap is netlag of course and all the syncing bugs that follows netlag. Neocron is an already very fast paced game that needs good reflexes, therefore netlag issues can decide the outcome easily. Either we solve them to make the game playable again, or we slow down the whole experience so that servers/clients can keep up with processing power, or theres is another solution which im no expert to suggest. But lag, clipping and syncing while having a HL monk shooting is an issue. Anyway I just hope kk has aces in its sleeves, because all these balancing discussions are just minor issues
i have to say thats pirtty flawless =\
The stamina loss will give ppl who suck at PvP a bit of an equalizer tho. :p
not realy cos the peeps that are good at pvp will be even better
if they are making the monks have the hitbox thing this will suck cos they will be to hard to play i think cos you have to get a lock then zoom in and hit the part of body where you will do the legs and head and so on
if they are making the monks have the hitbox thing this will suck cos they will be to hard to play i think cos you have to get a lock then zoom in and hit the part of body where you will do the legs and head and so on I thought English and German were the only 2 accepted languages on this forum (your sig).
I thought English and German were the only 2 accepted languages on this forum (your sig).
dude im very sleepy ive worked for the last 18 hours so lay off please
Just saying it because not only is it hard to comprehend, but also the only meaning that I could extract from it is untrue. They might become harder to play when they introduce psi aiming (although not harder than any other class), but monks already do locational damage.
im just saying will you have to fully lock on the player to hit him and if so what happens if you dont get a good lock will your spell not cast or will it miss and hit somthing else ??????
im just saying will you have to fully lock on the player to hit him and if so what happens if you dont get a good lock will your spell not cast or will it miss and hit somthing else ??????
You mean - SHOCK HORROR - like guns do?
I imagine rather than it missing, the spell will do only a portion of the possible damage like how weapons manage the hit miss nature of bullets within a burst, only two bullets hit out of 3 - only 2/3 of the damage. (As an example)
Line of sight needs to be added to all aggressive spells in conjunction to this change just to make monks more inline with the other classes in general as it would assist the bad netcode it making fights involving aggressive psi more fair.
Anyway, back to the Topic.
Also with line of sight monks will have the same ability as gun users to target specific areas of the body, making the hit box system balanced across the classes.
You mean - SHOCK HORROR - like guns do
Anyway, back to the Topic.
Also with line of sight monks will have the same ability as gun users to target specific areas of the body, making the hit box system balanced across the classes.
ok but you know how weapons use weapon lore to aim quicker you think they will do the same but with more psi use you have the quicker you will aim ?
I dont think monks should do locational damage full stop.
There spells kinda hit the whole body in one, not sections of it imo gun users should be the only ones who can hit specific spots.
not true if you hit the legs with a hl at the min they will take out your legs
not true if you hit the legs with a hl at the min they will take out your legs
but what in my statement isnt true?
I never said they didn't do locational damage as it is now i just said i dont believe they should do locational damage at all.
ok but you know how weapons use weapon lore to aim quicker you think they will do the same but with more psi use you have the quicker you will aim ? Mental focus? Feel free to actually read what's posted here on the forum...
im only trying to get some idea what its going to be like and stuff
im only trying to get some idea what its going to be like and stuffWhen you shoot people in the head the announcer will yell "HEADSHOT OWNAGE!!1" and they will fall over headless. When you shoot people in the legs, they will turn into a slug, which you can then step on if you don't mind getting your boots messy. If you shoot them in the chest, they will do the new 'gasping' emote, and fall to their knees, begging for mercy.
lol Glok, I love it.
Five star idea !
im only trying to get some idea what its going to be like and stuff
if they are making the monks have the hitbox thing this will suck cos they will be to hard to play i think cos you have to get a lock then zoom in and hit the part of body where you will do the legs and head and so on
If you don't know what it's going to be like then why say something like, "this will suck"
Just try to keep up with this forum, since your opinion will be invalid until you are informed.
monks are fine just los
I pity you, forum troll or just uneducated monk lover.
No stamina loss and it sounds good.
/me agrees
(My opinion still stands as the hitbox "chest" already have its advantage because it's way bigger than other hitboxes)
beaing able to multi task such as chompin boosters and anti drugs is what seperates good players from bad playesr amonks other things so stamina loss is goof
We'll see how it goes.
And thats the only thing I'm going to say on the subject.
maybe we need bigger QBsOr maybe QB setups will become part of what makes the best the best. They already are to some extent, but KK seems bent on forcing us to swap from inventory more and more. So what's really important? :o
My apuhyb goes:
HL
heal
medkit
stam
def
shelter
anti
psi booster
psi booster
empty to swap primaries
That's the best I can do, that's what's important to me so....
Im all for that, but i am kinda confused, why does a holy lightning that comes from the sky above , kills my legs in 1 hit ? I wish my rifles did half of what that spell can do.
yes ? good question ? Why a HL do located damages as it comes from the sky and hit the head first ?
Or maybe QB setups will become part of what makes the best the best. They already are to some extent, but KK seems bent on forcing us to swap from inventory more and more. So what's really important? :o
My apuhyb goes:
HL
heal
medkit
stam
def
shelter
anti
psi booster
psi booster
empty to swap primaries
That's the best I can do, that's what's important to me so.... You shouldn't be restricted by what you can fit into your QB, but instead how you have distributed your characters skills.
You shouldn't be restricted by what you can fit into your QB, but instead how you have distributed your characters skills.That's true to a degree, but one thing about this game that stands out is the necessity of management of resources, from skillpoints to loadout. A restrictive QB is a bit arbitrary though. How could it be different? Maybe a half-life style item/weapon category thing?
I like AO's actionbar / quickbelt.
A restrictive QB is a bit arbitrary though. How could it be different? Maybe a half-life style item/weapon category thing?
Quickest fix:
Enlarge the QB to 12 slots, add "+" and "-" as keys for them. A limited solution but better than nothing.
Quick fix:
Enlarge the QB to 20 slots (or 24, when combined with the quickest fix), arranged in two rows. Triggering the additional slots would be done by pressing ALT-1 to ALT-0. (plus Alt-"-"+" and ALT-"-" if those are also added).
I know that Alt at first glimpse is not as practical as CTRL or Shift, but those keys tend to be used for crouching and run/walk.
Huge fix:
If you want to add even more boxes, it would even be possible to not make the function keys open menus any more. (Or rather, only open/close them when the RPOS already is open. ) Combined with the Alt-Option, this would give another 24 slots. Though, i dare to doubt that we'd really need 48 QB-slots. I'd be rather happy with 24 already. :)
I don't want my QB to be as busy as wow at lvl 60 =/
12 slots will do.
I would increase the Stamina useage rather than lower the total amount of Stamina available. This would fit the the overall effect it is makes it more tiring to complete set actions.
Also IF you are going to implement this....
FIRST SORT OUT THE WEAPONS THAT DO/DO NOT DO LOCATION DAMAGE!!
The weapons that devour stamina will never be used again I'm sure.
That's true to a degree, but one thing about this game that stands out is the necessity of management of resources So in other words, it's all about choosing the class who can stealth away to rebuff, while none stealthing classes have to stand still switching their QB items...
So in other words, it's all about choosing the class who can stealth away to rebuff, while none stealthing classes have to stand still switching their QB items...
Not really no. Why would you need to stealth to switch QB items when the only added effect here is additional stamina drain. So that requires one QB item slot for a 4 x Stamina booster set, which most players have anyway. I am sure 4 would be enough to polish someone off even with the proposed additional stamina drain.
Not really no. Why would you need to stealth to switch QB items when the only added effect here is additional stamina drain. So that requires one QB item slot for a 4 x Stamina booster set, which most players have anyway. I am sure 4 would be enough to polish someone off even with the proposed additional stamina drain. you only need stams on certain char types atm, and what would you do when you have no more stams in your QB?
You could stick auto-run on along with movement in RPOS, then open the RPOS and move the next Stam's into your QB. Just don't do it when you are looking over a cliff ;)
So in other words, it's all about choosing the class who can stealth away to rebuff, while none stealthing classes have to stand still switching their QB items...
Not really no. Why would you need to stealth to switch QB items when the only added effect here is additional stamina drain. So that requires one QB item slot for a 4 x Stamina booster set, which most players have anyway. I am sure 4 would be enough to polish someone off even with the proposed additional stamina drain.
I think that was what's known as a rhetorical question. If that were the case this would be spyocron, not monkocron.
Either that or giga is playing something else that doesn't have hordes or monks, including many hybrids who manage to use both APU and PPU abilities in only 10 slots without being too disadvantaged.
I think that was what's known as a rhetorical question. If that were the case this would be spyocron, not monkocron.
Either that or giga is playing something else that doesn't have hordes or monks, including many hybrids who manage to use both APU and PPU abilities in only 10 slots without being too disadvantaged. The irony in you comment is that it's posted in the balancing forum. Look at the whole picture, monks are changing, everything is changing.
So an APU using Holy lightning...
The lightning goes through the head all the way down the body :p
Hmm... Seems like instant kill to me.
So an APU using Holy lightning...
The lightning goes through the head all the way down the body :p
Hmm... Seems like instant kill to me. :lol: good point, leg shots should do more dmg with HL
:lol: good point, leg shots should do more dmg with HL
... more like it should do non-locational damage, which would make more sense than being able to turn someone into a turtle before they can turn around and pull a gun.
Every class ive palyed needs Stams.
My monk didnt untill i tried to take a PSI booster to heal, dam stamina.
But i thought we already lost a small amount of stamina when getting shot?
So an APU using Holy lightning...
The lightning goes through the head all the way down the body :p
Hmm... Seems like instant kill to me.
Should do non-locational damage then! Also should only be able to be used Outdoors!
SORT OUT the Weapon Types Hit Locations FIRST before toggling the hit boxes! Otherwise its going to un-balance things even more!!
I love this whole balancing thing, and this hitbox idea is nice.
... more like it should do non-locational damage, which would make more sense than being able to turn someone into a turtle before they can turn around and pull a gun. because taking even more pvp skill out of the class is a good thing....
ashley watts
10-05-06, 23:40
DAM >.<, i wish KK would fix the current bugs and stuff, before adding MORE content to be bugged with :/
Apocalypsox
11-05-06, 00:28
humm...funny thing balancing might fix the DAMNED MONKS :D personally i find that as the biggest bug in NC atm :p
humm...funny thing balancing might fix the DAMNED MONKS :D personally i find that as the biggest bug in NC atm :p
i thought it was the dreaded Watts bug tbh.
I just read Thanatos' idea after reading through some of the ideas on the last Hitbox discussion, and he's my new hero. I was on the verge of a heart attack from some of the game-destroying ideas presented in the first thread (such as SI or drugflash for being shot). If anyone here has played the game Perfect Dark on the N64, then they will realise why inflicting vision impairing affects on other players reduces fun, and SI for being shot would cause a problem for uncapped players, as well as players who refine their spec specifically for certain weapons. People would just spec more R-C and less agility, for instance, and that would slow PvP down.
Thanks Thanatos :P
Small Head hitbox. 150% damage for all guns when headshot. SH headshot damage goes up some something like 80%-90% of your h/p. And slight Drugflash when hit in the head for a second or two. I think many people underestimate the difficulty of landing headshot on a moving target. it;s not gonna happen to often. And Even less with a Sh in the middle of an Op fight. Headshots should be a rare occurance with great benfits.
Headshots should be a rare occurance with great benfits. depends on who your fighting
i think for a HS you should have to have your crosshiar on him/her for a certain amount of time.
Why though?
Shooting someone in the head is still shooting someone in the head.
Creating a time-span system wouldn't make much sense.
Why though?
Shooting someone in the head is still shooting someone in the head.
Creating a time-span system wouldn't make much sense. Agreed, good use of common sense
vBulletin v3.0.12, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.