View Full Version : Weapon discussion: Melee combat category
The concept for the melee combat category has been implemented now. In the second part of this post you will find several examples that demonstrate the implementation. As usual we are starting with the general definitions for all weapon classes.
Damage (per time unit):
-APU Weapons 100 %
-Cannons 90 %
-Rifles 80 %
-Pistols 75 %
-Melee Weapons 65 %
Bonus-System:
-Hightech Weapons + 5 % (additive)
-Rare Weapons + 7.5 % (exclusive)
-Epic Weapons + 9.5 % (exclusive)
-WoC Weapons + 10 % (exclusive)
Furthermore, additional weapon properties could change for rare, epic or WoC weapons: clip size, firing frequency, range etc.
Aim speed (1.50 – 4.50 Seconds, Min | Max):
-Melee Weapons deactivated
-PPU Weapons deactivated
-APU Weapons 0.75 1.50
-Pistols 0.75 2.25
-Rifles 1.00 3.00
-Cannons 2.00 4.50
Note: Smaller is better.
Aim accuracy (Reticule, Min | Max):
-APU Weapons 1.50 3.00
-Rifles 1.50 3.50
-Pistols 1.50 4.00
-Cannons 1.50 5.00
Note: Smaller is better.
Firing frequency (45 – 120 shots/min, Min | Max):
-Rifles 45 120
-Pistols 30 120
-Melee Weapons 40 60
-APU Weapons 30 60
-Cannons 15 45
Range (50 – 600 Meters, Min | Max):
-Cannons 300 600
-Rifles 200 600
-APU Weapons 100 300
-Pistols 50 150
-Melee Weapons striking distance (+ tolerance factor)
Note: The range of melee weapons seems unrealistic of course, in general they all could be set at 5 meters but this would negatively impact gameplay. Therefore a range will also be defined – for good weapons the tolerance will increase, so to speak, defining when a blow will be counted as a hit.
Examples: melee-weapons:
Example #1: Baseball Bat
Category: LowTech Melee-Weapon
TechLevel: 44
Hit frequency: 40 / minute
Damage per hit: 77.41 (Force)
Damage per minute: about 3096
Rare-version: Peacemaker
TechLevel: 94
Damage per hit: 264.40 (Force)
Damage per minute: about 10575
Example #2: Special Forces Combat Knife
Category: LowTech Melee-Weapon
TechLevel: 76
Hit frequency: 50 / minute
Damage per hit: 140.33 (Force 10 %, Piercing 90 %)
Damage per minute: about 7016
Rare-version: Vein Ripper
TechLevel: 97
Damage per hit: 222.56 (Force, Piercing)
Damage per minute: about 11127
Example #3: 'Face Scratcher’ Claw
Category: LowTech Melee-Weapon
TechLevel: 65
Hit frequency: 40 / minute
Damage per hit: 137.77 (Force 25 %, Piercing 75 %)
Damage per minute: about 5510
Rare-version: Paw Of Bear
TechLevel: 112
Damage per hit: 352.17 (Force, Piercing, Poison)
Damage per minute: about 14086
Example #4: Double Edged Sword
Category: LowTech Melee-Weapon
TechLevel: 57
Hit frequency: 37.5 / minute
Damage per hit: 120.53 (Force 10 %, Piercing 90 %)
Damage per minute: about 4519
Rare-version: Blade of Ceres
TechLevel: 100
Damage per hit: 311.82 (Force, Piercing, Poison)
Damage per minute: about 11693
Example #5: Laserblade II
Category: High-Tech Melee-Weapon
TechLevel: 62
Hit frequency: 30 / Minute
Damage per hit: 179.51 (Piercing, Energy)
Damage per minute: about 5385
Rare-version: Energy Soulblade (Laserblade)
TechLevel: 90
Hit frequency: 37.5 / minute
Damage per hit: 275.18 (Piercing, Fire, Energy)
Damage per minute: about 10319
Rare-version: Devils Grace (Laserblade II)
TechLevel: 115
Hit frequency: 37.5 / minute
Damage per hit: 410.75 (Piercing, Energy, X-Ray)
Damage per minute: about 15402
We've just had a request about the electro shocker in the german forum - now you have the same information:
Addition #1: Electro Shocker
Category: HighTech Melee
TechLevel: 53
Hit frequency: 60 / minute
Damage per hit: 71.0027 (Energy, DoT-Stun)
Damage per minute: about 4260
Rare-Version: Thunderbolt
TechLevel: 110
Damage per hit: 190.7877 (Energy, Fire, DoT-Stun)
Damage per minute: about 14309
different hit frequencies? sounds like a very good way to make the weapons unique
Dribble Joy
08-09-06, 21:12
Wait.... so this means the shocker weapons do full damage? Will they no longer do para? Because both would be.... just wrong......
edit:
Does DoT - Stun mean para effect or a DoT energy/xray 'stun'?
Heavyporker
08-09-06, 21:33
John Doe... that does look a bit odd.
Stunners were always intended to do little damage but inflict painful parashock. Indeed, the strategy was to: 'tap with stunner, pull out other weapon and bang away'.
But now it looks like it causes incredible damage on top of that significant parashock effect.
I do not recommend removing the parashock effect.. but another look at that damage is suggested.
Dribble Joy
08-09-06, 21:58
I do not recommend removing the parashock effect..
Must... not.... rant....
Porker.... bah, edited.
i wouldn't mind having shockers as a primary weapon, with a 1-2 second stun that stacks (but doesn't increase the effectiveness of the stun)
Finally some News for Melee Weapons!
What about the Damage, Thanatos? Will it still be random (as it is now), or will it be a stable Amount? Or will the Space between lowest and highest Damage be reduced?
Dribble Joy
09-09-06, 03:50
i wouldn't mind having shockers as a primary weapon, with a 1-2 second stun that stacks (but doesn't increase the effectiveness of the stun)
You of all people...... :p.
shockers do too much damage. they should remain how they are in the sense that they stun, and tahts about it. I dont like seeing them do up to half the damage of their non-stunning counterparts.
Apocalypsox
09-09-06, 07:23
plain and simply, melee = high RoF and high damage due to their low range. way simpler than any of the other weapon discussions.
You of all people...... :p. it would be less annoying than it is now where he only has to hit you once to have you stunned for a long time, he would have to keep hitting you to keep you stunned.
Dribble Joy
09-09-06, 15:31
But wouldn't you prefer it to be gone alltogether?
I'd quite like the shockers to loose their para effects and become weapons in their own right.
I like the idea of the tank having the para still, as unlike a ppu he has to get right up to his victim to be able to use it or his other weapons, in which time he will have been blasted several times and taken posibly a fair amount of damage before he can start his attack.
But yes i agree the shockers should not do much damage just be purely a para with a hint of damage.
Why not look at the length of time the para lasts to differenciate between them.
But wouldn't you prefer it to be gone alltogether?
. obviously, but i doubt that will happen :p
RogerRamjet
09-09-06, 17:32
obviously, but i doubt that will happen :p
Dont give up now!!
The communitys only wanted removed for like 3 years, we're nearly there!!
http://images.thatimagesite.com/core/790/790_image.jpg (http://www.thatimagesite.com/image/789)
DO IT!
We've decided for our concepts to make things like para (this is meant with DoT-Stun) less effective in general. This is the reason why the electro shocker is now more an energy weapon with stun (about 60 %/40 %). The damage points of it are the full amount (Instant- and DoT-Points).
I think it only looks harder than it really is. But the damage points are granted by it's high TL.
Rough numbers -
Devils grace does -
15000 dmg Per/Second
Thunderbolt Does -
14000 dmg Per/Second + stun
.... hgmmm owch
Dribble Joy
10-09-06, 06:43
I think there's some slight confusion (I think...).
I think he means that the stun has an equivalent dmg amount.
Finally some News for Melee Weapons!
What about the Damage, Thanatos? Will it still be random (as it is now), or will it be a stable Amount? Or will the Space between lowest and highest Damage be reduced?
if your on somebody elses srceen you are doing the same damage over and over but on your screen you get random thats what i found out anyway
i think the damage dealt depends on the distance between the mc and it's target, at least that's what it seemed to be to me in the less buggy sectors :p
I hate it how you are fighting a melle tank and you think ur doing great, ur health is fine, he cant hit ya but then all along he was hitting you and u suddenly drop to 25 health and think "shit" then ur dead!
Dribble Joy
10-09-06, 20:02
Aren't they doing something to try to fix the melee lag and things?
I forget....
There is no logic behind making an electroshocker damage only -
ITS A TASER FFS
Why make a taser that doesnt tase ? its just a pacemaker with a taser skin, and its a bad idea.
[ edited ]
There is no logic behind making an electroshocker damage only -
ITS A TASER FFS
Why make a taser that doesnt tase ?
the electro shocker is now more an energy weapon with stun . i really shouldn't have to do that :\
Rare-version: Devils Grace (Laserblade II)
TechLevel: 115
Hit frequency: 37.5 / minute
Damage per hit: 410.75 (Piercing, Energy, X-Ray)
Damage per minute: about 15402
Rare-Version: Thunderbolt
TechLevel: 110
Damage per hit: 190.7877 (Energy, Fire, DoT-Stun)
Damage per minute: about 14309Are you fucking kidding me? I won't even comment on this as it's so goddamn obvious.
Are you fucking kidding me? I won't even comment on this as it's so goddamn obvious. ahahaa
*zzzzzaaaaaaapppppp*
meh who cares. everbody will just thunder bolt then change to pob for piercing poison anyway like before =\ or there gona be specin minimum for the thunderbolt then changing to cs n dev
if your on somebody elses srceen you are doing the same damage over and over but on your screen you get random thats what i found out anyway
I know, but that doesnt change the Fact that i still see random Numbers on MY Screen, thats whats counts for ME. And i really hate the Meleelag, especially with Spiderbot and Copbots! :mad:
Aren't they doing something to try to fix the melee lag and things?
I forget....
I sure hope so melee is pointless atm, Mind you I remember being killed by a melee user who I could just see at the edge of my screen slashing away hehe
Also I think he ment the electro shocker has damage and stun to = 100% normal so 60% damage and 40% stun now is what he said, not sure what he means by it but I'd guess that the weapons damage to stun ratio.
I think i know what he means, when you look at the damage the Rare Freezer rifle says..
Its something like 5000 energy - But we all now your lucky if it does 50 -
DoT Must be damage points -
Bonus-System:
-Hightech Weapons + 5 % (additive)
-Rare Weapons + 7.5 % (exclusive)
-Epic Weapons + 9.5 % (exclusive)
-WoC Weapons + 10 % (exclusive)
Just something I noticed, dunno if it's been mentioned for other weapon classes. Currently there are no MC Epic weapons ingame, so there is a bit of a big bonus gap between rare weapons and WoC weapons.
I sure hope so melee is pointless atmlies =]
Just something I noticed, dunno if it's been mentioned for other weapon classes. Currently there are no MC Epic weapons ingame, so there is a bit of a big bonus gap between rare weapons and WoC weapons.so? though an epic mc weap would be nice for mc pes..
Also it's nice to see the different types of melee weapons having different freqs.
There is no logic behind making an electroshocker damage only -
ITS A TASER FFS
Why make a taser that doesnt tase ? its just a pacemaker with a taser skin, and its a bad idea.since when do real life tasers make you walk slow (apart from pain induced slowness :P).. if thats the point you was trying to make.. imo the melee shockers should do dot-nrg/xrr damage with no para :p
lies =]
so? though an epic mc weap would be nice for mc pes..
Also it's nice to see the different types of melee weapons having different freqs.
since when do real life tasers make you walk slow (apart from pain induced slowness :P).. if thats the point you was trying to make.. imo the melee shockers should do dot-nrg/xrr damage with no para :p
sorry dude but you shocker with out para is just like any other weapon it should have para but it should wear off quicker then the speed it wears off at the min
For the melee, what would be nice is to keep in mind Private eyes as well.
The highest weapon reachable with 2 blue drugs is the energy soulblade, or the PoT... I know it can become quite powerfull with the DB. But yeah... Somehow, keep in mind the Private eyes and the TL of the blades and weapons.
Just my 2 cents
It's already been mentioned in this thread I think about melee characters taking plenty of damage before even reaching an opponent. After the balancing tanks aren't gonna be able to buff themselves with basic deflector or resist booster. I know that they'll have super-duper medi kits but I doubt that they would have any other properties than a strong heal.
Sooo, I was gonna post this in an [Idea] thread but this might be a better place, why can't melee characters hold a shield of some sort? There could be one of two types of shield, one could be a low tech type of riot shield that offer basic protection (piercing, force and low fire damage). The second is a more high tech energy shield that could pretty much absorb any type of energy (at least some of it) including force, fire, piercing and due to its nature would prevent buffs being placed on the runner, stopping him from being overpowered. It could absorb buffs that had already been placed on the runner to prevent exploiting. We could have one or both types so noob and capped runners had a low or high level shield they could equip. This shield could be equipped in the less used glove slot.
actually the tme needed to come near an opponent isn't that big and with such a shiel it would be totally impossible to catch a tank off guard. besides they are gonna implement new armor sets for tanks and tanks won't need to cast their heal anymore, but just press a button and have it on.
basically i think your idea is a nice one tho, but i think it would overpower tanks a lil bit :p
dont anti stun drugs work against taser's ?
er... woc PE using hurler nuckles with there woc bonus and a damage boost
er... woc PE using hurler nuckles with there woc bonus and a damage boost
Sounds like Fun. :D
... and a total waste of a PE since netcode will be yer worst enemy.
... and a total waste of a PE since netcode will be yer worst enemy.
he maens after the patch you never know they might be fixing it abit
he maens after the patch you never know they might be fixing it abit
the woc knuckles still blow with or without the netcode bugged they could do with a boost
well, woc weapons by tl are higher damage than a normal gun of that tl, but, they're not necessarily the best choice since there are higher tls... and seeing as though the knuckles are tl 108, thats pretty high for somthing a pe could use with little effort to cap, and for tanks it still could serve a purpose in pvp
well, woc weapons by tl are higher damage than a normal gun of that tl, but, they're not necessarily the best choice since there are higher tls... and seeing as though the knuckles are tl 108, thats pretty high for somthing a pe could use with little effort to cap, and for tanks it still could serve a purpose in pvp
not at the min for tanks cos it sucks at damage after the patch then maybe but now no it does less damage then the boc
are you sure its not just damage type thats teh problem? i dunno, i haven't ever had one, but it doesn't seem like something i'd aim for on a tank, but its still -something-... maybe after the general balancing of the patch it'll be more worthwhile.
i think it does fire damage ermm it might be ok on mars then lol
but it isnt worth going for woc if that the weapon but hc woc someone said somthing about new flamer i think thats going to be the new hc woc but then again they might bring out somthing else and just add that as a rare dont know tbh
according to species the woc knuckles did less dmg than the PoT.he capped them too.
Ive heard a few people say that the knuckles are no good.
I sold TvA's knuckles for 600k - they suck.
Not worth using, theyre for novelty.
ashley watts
01-10-06, 18:03
You cant really do anything to meele unless the netcode is fixed..
just wondering but how come vein ripper has lost its poison damage? a few other damage types have changed as well.. can't you make all melee weaps of the same type do the same damage.. at the moment rare varirities don't always do the same as the non-rares :P they don't seem to have much unison or such
just something like...
knuckles - force
stilletos - piercing
junkknives - piercing/poison
swords - piercing/fire
bats - force/fire
claws - force/piercing/poison
blue laserblades - energy/force/xrr
red laserblades - energy/force/fire
shockers - energy + stun DoT (2 secs max - the shock isn't much use for using then switching to something else)
edit/ oh and any chance you can allow melee weapons hit stealthers? i'm sick of being able to follow stealthers perfectly (takes skill y'know) and not be able to do a damn thing about it... all other characters can use aoe or plasma/ion weapons ... and melee's are the only characters that can't do damage to different hitboxes as well.. just thought i'd add that as well.
i think the POINT of stealth is to protect user from being hit ... even by skilled tanks with ham fists :)
Kraz... as much as i like tanks myself ... i would hate seeing my spy get killed in stealth by air-slapping tank.. :cool:
i think the POINT of stealth is to protect user from being hit ... even by skilled tanks with ham fists :)err... no that's just what it's being abused for... the POINT of stealth is for infultration if you haven't already been seen, not for excaping :/
err... no that's just what it's being abused for... the POINT of stealth is for infultration if you haven't already been seen, not for excaping :/
well i agree with you, stealth should not be a 'godmode', if you stealth you get the advantage of getting seen quite hard.
but every weapon class should have at least 1 type doing damage. hc-CS, apu-barrel/multi, pistol-judge... rifel-FL, well all except apu need tc i think, so the logical weapon for melee would be the DG (would give at least ONE reason to stat tc after the evo2.2 shockernerf). in any other case DG<PoB so there would be a point of carry it with you...
yeah thats pretty fair =]
Heavyporker
09-10-06, 20:25
I completely and utterly agree with the idea that melee gentanks should be able to air-swipe for a chance to hit stealthers.
A second to the notion of melee tanks haveing a weapon that can hit stealthers
Clive tombstone
03-11-06, 05:02
Definatly on the stealth hits man, It doesnt make sense why you cant hit what you cant see (take a Pinyata for instance, perfect example! Blindfolded, swinging a bat at a party favor for candy, cept In NC's case its a spy, and hes filed with delicious blood treats and a Silent hunter filled quickbelt:D )
also, while were on the topic of blood, would this be the wrong place to pimp the idea of a new Chainsaw weapon? :angel:
Apocalypsox
03-11-06, 05:11
also, while were on the topic of blood, would this be the wrong place to pimp the idea of a new Chainsaw weapon? :angel:
/SIGNED!!!!!! Best idea ever!!!!
I'm not too keen on the chainsaw idea. I've never really enjoyed using them in other games.
What about Gladiator arena gauntlets? To be equipped in the glove slot and can be used as normal fists which emit a high amount of energy or poison in 1 shot but take a long time to recharge. When not in direct use but still equiped in the glove slot they could give a damage bonus to any low tech melee weapon.
The downside to this would be their carryweight, perhaps somewhere between 30 and 50. Needing to be heavy to put more weight behind a blow (thus enabling the damage bonus to low tech melee) and also it would place a greater strain on the weapon they are used with causing the quality to degrade quicker.
just wondering but, is there actually going to be a "real" woc weapon for mc.. just that the xbow, beretta and ak47 all have their own nice new models.. and we just got a varient on using alt+h knuckles... (and we already have dentist) seems a bit of a copout to me =]
i'd say just replace the hurlerking knucks with a TL108 or something varient on that sword you get from the jones mission.. i doubt people would mind it being reused, it's not like it's ever used in combat :p
vBulletin v3.0.12, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.