View Full Version : Weapon Discussion: PSI Combat (APU) and PSI Support (PPU) Categories
With these two categories we will complete the discussion of the single weapon categories – we left the toughest nut for the finale. We have decided to somewhat restructure the PSI Monks to provide both sides with a clearer orientation. In the end, the main characteristic used to differentiate the monk categories is dealing damage. Therefore we now have two clearly divided sides with – in our opinion – an attractive mixture for hybrids:
- PSI Combat (APU): Damage dealer
- PSI Support (PPU): Support class
- PSI Hybrid: Mixture of both categories up to the medium TL area
We will start with a short overview of the criteria used to classify both categories.
Classification PSI Combat and PSI Support:
Definition: PSI Combat
This category is all about directly damaging the opponent or to heavily hinder him – therefore the APU monk is the best at dealing damage. To counter this important advantage, he has the weakest total resistance of all classes.
Summary of the important APU monk changes:
All PSI combat modules now need to be aimed – while this process is very fast, neglecting it leads to a reduced damage output or even fizzled casts.
The APU no longer has access to the so-called Antibuffs – these modules have been categorized as PSI support.
Both monk types now have a range that lies between pistol combat and rifle combat – this change acts as compensation for the lower damage generation of the rifle and heavy combat categories.
Definition: PSI Support
The PPU monk’s main task is to help his teammates, foremost support in form of Heals, Resurrect, Shields and Skill Boosts. Furthermore, he can remove damaging effects with the so-called Anti-DoTs against poison, fire etc, which can also count as support in a broader sense.
We consider the last area as borderline: Even though Parashock, DamageBoost or AntiHeal inflict the victim with a considerable disadvantage, these modules only work in conjunction with other elements and do not cause damage directly. For this reason, those modules have been classified as PPU support.
Therefore the PPU does not have any aggressive combat styles anymore – this disadvantage is countered by the best total resistance.
Summary of the important PPU monk changes:
The PSI support modules will still not require any aiming.
The PPU does not only have access to buffs or shields, he also has access to the modules that remove those effects (Antibuffs) – as these modules do not deal any damage, they have been classified as PSI support. We have adjusted the PSI energy consumption for some modules like AntiHeal to partially painful amounts to prevent uncontrolled abuse.
As already mentioned above, monks will have to get used to a different range – this change should increase and improve the tactical capabilities of other classes.
Probation period
We are well aware that there are many changes that will require the monks among you to adjust quite a bit – we do however consider these changes to be sensible and exciting. Therefore we are planning to keep these changes for a certain amount of time (even past the test server phase) to be able to really determine whether these ideas aimed at the right spots and are an improvement for all classes. What we are asking for is to take the time to get familiar with this new way of playing a monk and not flame these changes without ever having played them. It generally is no problem to change these things back – but we consider this direction to be the currently most sensible!
Available modules:
In this section we are listing the general range of modules for both APU and PPU to give you and idea of the changes.
PSI Combat:
The APU has access to four complete series available in three quality levels (Usual, Blessed, Holy) with at least six modules. The Lightning and PSI attack modules that are already available stay the same. The same is true for the current rares – the frozen series will introduce a new rare module.
PSI Combat Series:
- Energy
- Fire
- Toxic
- Frozen
PSI Combat Module:
- Ball
- Lance
- Ball Blast
- Halo
- Barrel
- Beam
The frozen series isn’t completely new, it rather takes over the PPU’s ParaShock series – it is comparable to freezer cannons, meaning the run speed reduction plays a rather minor role (the PPU has a new implementation of ParaShock).
The modules have the same behavior for all series, a certain module type, for example Ball Blast, has a certain cast time across all series to insure a constant frequency. The properties like aiming, target size and range are all based on the general weapon balancing concept (examples can be found at the bottom).
PSI Support:
The PPU module range does not only increase by the changes mentioned above – we made sure that all modules are available in the quality levels (Usual, Blessed, Holy). These differ in strength and in some cases in (a usually shorter) cast time.
PSI Support Series:
- Heal (Single, Group, Sanctum)
- Resurrection
- Deflector (Single, Group, Sanctum)
- Absorber (Single, Group, Sanctum)
- Protector (Single, Group, Sanctum)
- PSI Shield
- AntiParalyse
- DamageBlocker
- AntiPoison
- AntiFire
- AntiEnergy
- AntiX-Ray
PSI Disadvantage Series:
- ParaShock (Single, Group, Sanctum)
- DamageBoost (Single, Group, Sanctum)
PSI AntiSupport Series:
- AntiHeal
- AntiDeflector
- AntiAbsorber
- AntiProtector
The last two groups are considered borderline and therefore have an increased PSI energy consumption.
PSI Support – Rares:
For this group we have decided to classify modules with special strengths, functionality or combinations of PPU abilities as rares:
- Holy Unprotector (AntiShield-Combo: removes Deflector, Absorber and Protector)
- Holy Catharsis (AntiDot-Combo: removes Poison-, Fire-, Energy- and X-Ray-DoT)
- Holy Exorcist (AntiDisadvantage-Combo: removes ParaShock and DamageBoost)
- Holy True Sight Sanctum (AntiStealth Sphere)
- Holy Deflection (Rare Deflector)
- Holy Absorption (Rare Absorber)
- Holy Protection (Rare Protector)
All existing PPU modules that were not mentioned here did not have their functionality changed and have only undergone balancing.
Reorganization of PSI shields – modules and the damage types they protect against:
- Deflector: Force, Piercing
- Absorber: Energy, X-Ray
- Protector: Fire, Poison
Implementation of some PSI support functions:
Implementation of shield functions (Deflector, Absorber, Protector):
The shields will work with a kind of energy pool. This pool is calculated from the module’s properties (TL, quality) and the supporter’s skills. The initial value of this energy pool determines the amount of protection the shield offers during its duration. Each shield protect against two damage types – as soon as one of these damage types is dealt to the runner (i.e. Force), the shield (i.e. Deflector) reduces the damage – however, it also loses some of its protection as the damage is applied to the shield’s energy pool by a certain percentage.
Restrictions for shields:
Self Cast: up to 80 % protection
Foreign Cast: up to 25 % protection
Concerning the functionality of shields (and heals): A better shield replaces a weaker one – this ensures that runners can not be put at a disadvantage by weaker support (by their opponents, „Shitbuffing“).
Implementation of disadvantage functions (ParaShock, DamageBoost):
These PPU abilities basically word similarly to shields: an energy pool determines the actual effect. However, the value of the casts (respectively damage tyes) is added to an already applied effect (and does not replace it) – this way, only a single effect is displayed. This change allows us to limit the effects to a certain value – we will make sure that for example the runner’s turn speed is not limited too much. The energy pool for ParaShock decreases over time and for DamageBoost through the increased damage taken.
Restrictions for disadvantage modules:
ParaShock: RunSpeed/TurnSpeed reduction to 75%
DamageBoost: Damage increase to 125%
General Information concerning the weapon balancing:
After going through the basic concepts, we can now continue (for the last time) with the general weapon balancing concepts:
Damage:
- APU Weapons 100 %
- Cannons 90 %
- Rifles 80 %
- Pistols 75 %
- Melee Weapons 65 %
Bonus-System:
- HighTech Weapons + 5 % (additive)
- Rare Weapons + 7.5 % (exclusive)
- Epic Weapons + 9.5 % (exclusive)
- WoC Weapons + 10 % (exclusive)
Aim speed (1.50 – 4.50 Seconds, Min | Max):
- Melee Weapons deactivated
- PPU Weapons deactivated
- APU Weapons 0.75 1.50
- Pistols 0.75 2.25
- Rifles 1.00 3.00
- Cannons 2.00 4.50
Note: Smaller is better – the aim speed only applies to PSI combat modules.
Aim precision (Reticule, Min | Max):
- APU Weapons 1.50 3.00
- Rifles 1.50 3.50
- Pistols 1.50 4.00
- Cannons 1.50 5.00
Note: Smaller is better – only applies to PSI combat modules.
Firing frequency (45 – 120 shots/minute, Min | Max):
- Rifles 45 120
- Pistols 30 120
- Melee Weapons 40 60
- APU Weapons 30 60
- Cannons 15 45
Range (50 – 600 Meters, Min | Max):
- Cannons 300 600
- Rifles 200 600
- APU Weapons 100 300
- Pistols 50 150
- Melee Weapons Striking distance (+ tolerance factor)
Clip Size
All PSI modules will continue to use PSI energy – therefore clip sizes do not apply.
Examples – PSI Combat Modules:
For PSI Combat Modules, the better variations (i.e. Holy or Rare) usually have a worse frequency. This leads to a higher damage output per single shot and is intended to underline the greater power of these modules.
Example #1: Crahn Energy Ball Blast
Category: PSI Combat
TechLevel: 17
Mode: Single Shot
Aim speed: 1.55 Seconds (103 %)
Aim precision: 3.14 Reticule size (105 %)
Cast frequency: 42.86 / Minute
Range: 151.56 Meter
PSI-Energy-Use: 5.58
Damage per shot: 31.6559 (Energy)
Damage per minute: ca. 1356
Example #2: Crahn Blessed Fire Barrel
Category: PSI Combat
TechLevel: 65
Mode: Single Shot
Aim speed: 1.27 Seconds (85 %)
Aim precision: 2.35 Reticule size (78 %)
Cast frequency: 30.00 / Minute
Range: 226.56 Meter
PSI-Energy-Use: 18.13
Damage per shot: 282.5977 (Fire)
Damage per minute: ca. 8477
Rare-Variation: Holy Firestorm (Barrel)
TechLevel: 108
Aim speed: 1.02 (68 %)
Aim precision: 1.65 (55 %)
Cast frequency: 22.22 / Minute
Range: 293.75 Meter
PSI-Energy-Use: 49.92
Damage per shot: 918.3691 (Fire)
Damage per minute: ca. 20408
Example #3: Crahn Toxic Beam
Category: PSI Combat
TechLevel: 42
Mode: Single Shot
Aim speed: 1.40 Seconds (93 %)
Aim precision: 2.73 Reticule size (91 %)
Cast frequency: 27.27 / Minute
Range: 190.63 Meter
PSI-Energy-Use: 12.18
Damage per shot: 163.5047 (Poison)
Damage per minute: ca. 4459
Rare-Variation: Holy Pestilence (Barrel)
TechLevel: 110
Aim speed: 1.01 (67 %)
Aim precision: 1.62 (54 %)
Cast frequency: 22.22 / Minute
Range: 293.75 Meter
PSI-Energy-Use: 51.33
Damage per shot: 946.6005 (Poison)
Damage per minute: ca. 21035
Example #4: Crahn Holy Frozen Lance
Category: PSI Combat
TechLevel: 73
Mode: Single Shot
Aim speed: 1.22 Seconds (81 %)
Aim precision: 2.22 Reticule size (74 %)
Cast frequency: 42.86 / Minute
Range: 239.06 Meter
PSI-Energy-Use: 14.14
Damage per shot: 236.5371 (Fire, Energy, DoT-Stun)
Damage per minute: ca. 10137
The amount used for the DoT-Stun is approximately 10% of the damage per shot – as the movement impairing effects stack, the impairment per shot is below one percent (see „Implementation of disadvantage functions „ further above)
Examples – PSI Support Module:
Example #5: Crahn Holy Heal
Category: PSI Support
TechLevel: 85
Cast frequency: 20.00 / Minute
Range: 257.81 Meter
Duration: 120.00 Seconds
Update interval: 2 Seconds
PSI-Energy-Use: 56.08
Healthpoints per tick: 24.80 (self cast: 37.20)
Healthpoints (total): ca. 1488 (self cast: 2232)
Example #6: Crahn Blessed Absorber
Category: PSI Support
TechLevel: 62
Cast frequency: 20.00 / Minute
Range: 221.88 Meter
Duration: 180.00 Seconds
PSI-Energy-Use: 37.72
ShieldFactor: 0.8628 (Starting value) – ca. 14 % Resistance
ShieldFactor (Self cast): 0.4665 (Starting value) – ca. 54 % Resistance
Restrictions (Shields): 25 % Foreign support | 80 % Self support
Rare-Variation: Holy Absorption
TechLevel: 108
Cast frequency: 24.00 / Minute
Range: 293.75 Meter
PSI-Energy-Use: 60.44
ShieldFactor: 0.7704 (Starting value) – ca. 23 % Resistance
ShieldFactor (Self cast): 0.2193 (Starting value) – ca. 78 % Resistance
Example #7: Crahn Holy Group ParaShock
Category: PSI Support, Group
TechLevel: 83
Cast frequency: 17.14 / Minute
Range: 191.92 Meter (75 %)
Duration: 120.00 Seconds
PSI-Energy-Use: 56.98 (125 %)
RunSpeedFactor: 0.9276 (Starting value) – ca. 93 % of the initial runspeed/turnspeed
Restrictions (ParaShock): 75 % reduction of the initial runspeed/turnspeed
Example #8: Crahn Holy DamageBoost
Category: PSI Support
TechLevel: 46
Cast frequency: 20.00 / Minute
Range: 147.66 Meter (75 %)
Duration: 120.00 Seconds
PSI-Energy-Use: 37.20 (125 %)
DamageBoostFactor: 1.1099 (Starting value) – ca. 11 % additional damage
Restrictions (DamageBoost): 125 % of the normal damage
This weapon discussion is certainly one of the longest and most complex so far- we have invested a lot of work into the concepts and their implementation. Therefore we would like you to read the information presented here very carefully before judging it. Everyone who wishes to participate in the discussion should be required to do so.
If some parts of the concepts are not clear to you, please ask so we can clear things up, we’ll do so as quickly as we can!
NVM, found the answer eventually.
ppus will be busy anti buffing instead of paraspamming, i like it =]
Where do Soulclusters (Aka Creature Focus) fit into the re-balancing?
Edit: 2nd Question will PPU's be able to cast, Deflector, Absorber and Protector all at the same time?
Dribble Joy
20-11-06, 18:38
- AntiParalyse
- DamageBlockerTL? Would PEs get access to this?
Self Cast: up to 80 % protection
Foreign Cast: up to 25 % protection
A tentative 'me likey'.
Restrictions for disadvantage modules:
ParaShock: RunSpeed/TurnSpeed reduction to 75%
Grumble. At least leave the turn speed alone....
Though given first quote, not a massive issue if you don't have to rely on a ppu to debuff.
Example #4: Crahn Holy Frozen Lance
Category: PSI Combat
TechLevel: 73
Mode: Single Shot
Aim speed: 1.22 Seconds (81 %)
Aim precision: 2.22 Reticule size (74 %)
Cast frequency: 42.86 / Minute
Range: 239.06 Meter
PSI-Energy-Use: 14.14
Damage per shot: 236.5371 (Fire, Energy, DoT-Stun)
Damage per minute: ca. 10137
The amount used for the DoT-Stun is approximately 10% of the damage per shot – as the movement impairing effects stack, the impairment per shot is below one percent (see „Implementation of disadvantage functions „ further above)
Umm... I am really not liking this. Also note that a stun effect is now classed as a psi support effect, thus should it not be anywhere near an APU's spell line-up? ;)
just wondering but..
PSI Disadvantage Series:
-ParaShock (Single, Group, Sanctum)
-DamageBoost (Single, Group, Sanctum)
that is a joke right... just remove para from ppus, apus have it now (as much as other damage dealers do) we REALLY don't need every ppu going around with para sancts, even if they only screw ur run/turnspeed by 25%
edit/ oh and, pda plz!
Where do Soulclusters (Aka Creature Focus) fit into the re-balancing?
Good point. If the PPU is to be strictly 'no damage' now, I hope APUs get these. It would be a little like WoW chars summoning demons etc to do more damage in addition to their own.
That said.. i guess ppus would have to respec if they wanted to do damage dealing missions, such as those needed to raise symp for a faction change.
Who knows?
Am I the only one who can't stand this?
Rare-Variation: Holy Pestilence (Beam)
TechLevel: 110
Aim speed: 1.01 (67 %)
Aim precision: 1.62 (54 %)
Cast frequency: 22.22 / Minute
Range: 293.75 Meter
PSI-Energy-Use: 51.33
Damage per shot: 946.6005 (Poison)
Damage per minute: ca. 21035
Oh, you will only need like 7 times more PPUs than now to be as effective as you are at the moment. That's still Monkocron imo.
I love it!
I love the re-introducing on the Holy Pestilance and making it into a beam.....im going to need poison resists :(
I think frost sounds better than frozen, now back to reading it :D
A few points:
- Holy heal = 24 health per tick?! 1400 total? So if you were fighting a tank with 600 HP (assuming the heal doesn't run before the end of the fight), the tank will be able to take ~3 times more dmg just because a PPU spent ~1.5 seconds casting a heal on him. I'd rather that the shields added more protection
- I hope that the para on the frozen line of spells is very short so that you have to be constantly using the spell for the effect to stay on. Otherwise it's just going to end up being a form of para for APUs.
Dribble Joy
20-11-06, 21:40
Am I the only one who can't stand this?
Oh, you will only need like 7 times more PPUs than now to be as effective as you are at the moment. That's still Monkocron imo.
It's not much more than the holy firestorm, and that's because it's 2 tls higher.
There's no anti fire spells or drugs, and it seems likely (hint hint KK) that if poison is going to be a more integral/common dmg type, then one of the shield types is going to protect against it.
why do apus have a spell doing 900 Dmg of a type barly any spy/ht pe has resists in?
that's going to be a little bit.... crazy?
Let's say a Spy has ... ummm 320-430 HP, depending on his resists and drug-setup. When I played, hardly anyone specced poisen resists as spy, as it would have gimped the other resists.
=> 0 Poisen resists = 0 Dmg is absorbed
I don't know, if those 950 points are against mobs, but I'd guess so. Afaik 66% of the Damage would not be taken into account in that case. ~320 Dmg with only one hit?
Did I forget that cool new shield and the techstuff available for Spies? Let's say about 200 Damage with one click.... And this is definately not right.
And it has a stackable DoT!!!
You will need like 5 PPUs for anti-poisen. That is not the way to reduce the need of mokehs
RogerRamjet
20-11-06, 22:59
[ edited ]
Restrictions for shields:
Self Cast: up to 80 % protection
Foreign Cast: up to 25 % protection
Does this make the self cast blessed or even usual > foreign holy?
If so, this could bring up new issues.... a new shitbuffing with a foreign holy thats less effective.
Also, it leaves the current issue of tanks being way underbalanced. they would not benefit from sheilds like other classes which is a huge disadvantage, no amount of con could make up for it. [woc con that adds natural resist % per 1-5? just for future ideas]
Another issue i'd like to address is the PPU's q-belt. its currently hard to manage spells as it is, but adding PLENTY more, is just going to encourange requireing more of a single class at an op war, rather than what was mentioned about being better off with more attacking classes and a few support.
In response to that, i say put the anti-heal/s/d/protect or w/e back to the APU, this would also make it so taking off things would reduce damage dealing at that time so it would be a tradeoff... making it more tactical. (plus apus will be bored without the variety)
EDIT:::: Also, with seeing the increasing number of poison damaging type weapons floating around, and their TLs paralleling that of current pvp weapons... i'd like to suggest more poison armor, more imps that contribute to poison resist and sheilds that defend against it. (i.e. NCPD, FFResist, PPR, should all have a bonus to por as well, There should be a chain of poison resisting armor much like inquisition, duranit, or duranium... maybe a chance to add diversity to monk armor.) This would ensure that more than just the top level poison weapons were being used... which will happen most definitely if nothing in that department is changed.
Dribble Joy
20-11-06, 23:09
why do apus have a spell doing 900 Dmg of a type barly any spy/ht pe has resists in?
Assuming the armour, resist, imp, item and skill system remains as is.
Remember those are also absolute values, after steel skin, a shield and any armour you have that 900 figure will be much smaller, in the region of 50-200.
Heavyporker
20-11-06, 23:18
why do apus have a spell doing 900 Dmg of a type barly any spy/ht pe has resists in?
that's going to be a little bit.... crazy?
Let's say a Spy has ... ummm 320-430 HP, depending on his resists and drug-setup. When I played, hardly anyone specced poisen resists as spy, as it would have gimped the other resists.
=> 0 Poisen resists = 0 Dmg is absorbed
I don't know, if those 950 points are against mobs, but I'd guess so. Afaik 66% of the Damage would not be taken into account in that case. ~320 Dmg with only one hit?
Did I forget that cool new shield and the techstuff available for Spies? Let's say about 200 Damage with one click.... And this is definately not right.
And it has a stackable DoT!!!
You will need like 5 PPUs for anti-poisen. That is not the way to reduce the need of mokehs
Whine, whine, whine. Did you see the low RoF on Holy Pestilence? Don't you remember something called Antidote pills? Don't you remember something called Viper King, Heavy Poison Belt?
Anyways, ther'es anti-poison items to deal with the DoT. There's no need for anti-Fire because the duration is tiny, and shelter already defends against it.
I'm just gonna wait and see if they've thought through this whole project, or if it's going to blow up in their face. As roger said, all these changes have ripple effects that need to be considered.
-Deflector: Force, Piercing
-Absorber: Energy, X-Ray
-Protector: Fire, Poison
So can they all be running at the same time?
Or is it a choice of having any 2, or having Deflector and then either Absorber or Protector?
PPU's are just going to end up with even more spells.
They already have loads, many of which are unused, some of which dont work properly.
Still dont understand why para is being moved over to apu's or infact being left in the game.
@ Roger - Classic mate :)
So can they all be running at the same time?
Or is it a choice of having any 2, or having Deflector and then either Absorber or Protector?
PPU's are just going to end up with even more spells.
They already have loads, many of which are unused, some of which dont work properly.
Still dont understand why para is being moved over to apu's or infact being left in the game.
@ Roger - Classic mate :)
nooooooooo i alrdy have 9 spells in my quick belt its hard fighting for a long time with only 1 slot free for the psi boosters
Bonus-System:
-HighTech Weapons + 5 % (additive)
-Rare Weapons + 7.5 % (exclusive)
-Epic Weapons + 9.5 % (exclusive)
-WoC Weapons + 10 % (exclusive)
i thought you (kk) wasnt bring out any WoC weapons for monks just the armour
hehe roger your post was damn funny, but gigas edged it ;)
Shame it dropped in nc2 beta :(
Dribble Joy
21-11-06, 02:43
Does this make the self cast blessed or even usual > foreign holy?
It means that of the absolute effect that a spell has, a foreign cast has 25% of the effect.
A self cast has 80% of the effect (why it isn't 100% one is not entirely aware).
So... yes. Remember that a PEs tl 25 shelter self casted currently gives equal or more protection than a foreign holy, unless the holy is capped.
If so, this could bring up new issues.... a new shitbuffing with a foreign holy thats less effective.
Self cast over-ride foreigns. Foreigns can't over-ride a self.
Also, it leaves the current issue of tanks being way underbalanced. they would not benefit from sheilds like other classes which is a huge disadvantage, no amount of con could make up for it. [woc con that adds natural resist % per 1-5? just for future ideas]
Remeber to forget about how things are now and how a change proposed here would change it. Think of things in a widers sense.
The issue we have is overall PPU effect on the other classes relative to one another.
Currently a tank and apu gain greatly, whereas the advantage of a ppu foreign shield to a PE or spy is minimal (if not detrimental).
If we are not careful we will see the same situation as we do now where the PE and Spy's benefit from PPUs is lower than that of the other two classes.
The combat classes may end up being balanced solo, but some loose out in the team arena.
So while reduced foreign effects are good, the effect of a PPU needs to be proportionate to his inclusion in a team as another fighter, it also needs to be equal.
What we haven't seen is how with their own self buffs, PEs and Spies are going to get that equal benefit when PPU spells don't stack on top of their self-casts (though with the nanite system it applies more to PEs).
Bonus-System:
-HighTech Weapons + 5 % (additive)
-Rare Weapons + 7.5 % (exclusive)
-Epic Weapons + 9.5 % (exclusive)
-WoC Weapons + 10 % (exclusive)
i thought you (kk) wasnt bring out any WoC weapons for monks just the armour
When did they say that?
And yet again, grumble at the rare, epic and WoC dmg bonus.
It means that of the absolute effect that a spell has, a foreign cast has 25% of the effect.
A self cast has 80% of the effect (why it isn't 100% one is not entirely aware).
Example #6: Crahn Blessed Absorber
ShieldFactor: 0.8628 (Starting value) – ca. 14 % Resistance
ShieldFactor (Self cast): 0.4665 (Starting value) – ca. 54 % Resistance
Rare-Variation: Holy Absorption
ShieldFactor: 0.7704 (Starting value) – ca. 23 % Resistance
ShieldFactor (Self cast): 0.2193 (Starting value) – ca. 78 % Resistance
What was said was the highest shielding spell (In this case Holy Absorption) would give a 78% reduction in total damage self-cast, 23% foreign cast. It's not 100% because we don't want invincibility. The 78%/23% wasn't referring to modulation of the spells effectiveness, but rather the absolute damage mitigation. And since there's a pool of energy from which the damage is being mitigated from, the values deteriorate with each hit, so for example that 78% will get lower and lower until the spell wears off if you're hit enough.
The original complaint is valid because if I as a PE for example use the Blessed Absorber on myself, I'd get a starting value of 54% absolute damage mitigation, but a higher level spell casted on my from someone else (Like Holy Absorption) would only give me 23% resistance, and since it's higher than my Blessed Absorber, I can't overwrite it... and I suffer.
The solution is to make priorities as such:
X < Higher X < Self X
Is it possible in game to make this so? If it was made so that nobody could overwrite the spells I place on myself, while still being able to overwrite the spells placed by others on myself, that would be great. So for example, someone can Crahn buff me, someone else can then Holy buff me. Someone else cannot buff over that but myself, since there's nothing higher except my own priority. Possible? Or as another example, I use Crahn buff on myself, someone else can't use Holy buff on me, because my low level self buff is higher priority. (I'm guessing the self-lowest level buff would still give a little more than a holy foreign cast buff)
Does this make the self cast blessed or even usual > foreign holy?
If so, this could bring up new issues.... a new shitbuffing with a foreign holy thats less effective.
Also, it leaves the current issue of tanks being way underbalanced. they would not benefit from sheilds like other classes which is a huge disadvantage, no amount of con could make up for it. [woc con that adds natural resist % per 1-5? just for future ideas]
Another issue i'd like to address is the PPU's q-belt. its currently hard to manage spells as it is, but adding PLENTY more, is just going to encourange requireing more of a single class at an op war, rather than what was mentioned about being better off with more attacking classes and a few support.
Firstly, I cannot believe you said that shitbuffing will be a problem after it was mentioned that it would override.
Secondly, you say that people will bring loads of monks to OP wars? PEs and spies most probably won't need to rely on anything but their own buffs. Also remember that debuffs won't be as necessary with the shield nerfs and will eat your mana like nothing else, as will triple para (woot for anti para drugs). Of course people could choose to bring a load of PPUs to OP wars to try to keep all 3 shields on people, antibuff, triple para and db....but I don't think that any clan would have many attackers when they have that many PPUs :lol:.
The more I think about the changes, the more I like them. I love it when a plan comes together :D
erm i didn't find it now, but kk already said that selfcasts will override any foreign casts before.
Keep The Monk The Way It Is...same Way Since Neocron 1......its Fucking Awesome How It Is Now
its a little to awsome
i would prefer it to be USEFULL and fun to have a variaty of classes in an op fight not just monks.
and hopefully 2.2 will FIX them (ppus mostley think apu is fine as it is tho not alongside a ppu)
With 23% protection from foreign shields, I think less people will bring them. The clans that realise that they are better off with dmg dealers insted of loads of PPUs will end up having an advantage. PPUs have to cast 3 shields, triple para, triple DB, antibuffs, and heals. I somehow doubt that they will have the mana for all this so they need to think carefully about how they use their mana
I really like the idea of giving antibuffs to PPUs as this means every class can be efficient with a PPU and not only APUs anymore.
I hate the idea of a freeze spell for APUs though, people are constantly moaning about parashock and shit and yet you give a new spell to APUs? Sounds crazy.
Even more crazy if you really intend to reintroduce the turnspeed penalty. Because that makes it pretty much impossible to aim properly when parashocked. Please don't do this. It's way more than enough to just reduce runspeed. :(
Also with that new poison beam, there needs to be more protection against poison. And what about poison damage ignoring shelter/deflector? As it is now, theres 1 implant, 2 spells, 2 pieces of armor to increase por. Of which a spy for example cant really use any without completely fucking over his resist setup. I hope you actually think about that.
And, most important of all, what about monk spells and LoS? Because that actually is the MAIN PROBLEM. And if you dont change that, monks will still be extremely superior to any other fighting class.
With 23% protection from foreign shields, I think less people will bring them. The clans that realise that they are better off with dmg dealers insted of loads of PPUs will end up having an advantage. PPUs have to cast 3 shields, triple para, triple DB, antibuffs, and heals. I somehow doubt that they will have the mana for all this so they need to think carefully about how they use their mana
You mean this might cause different PPUs to use different tactics!?! OH NOES! It might introduce more variety to PvP! We're doomed! :eek:
With regards to para, I think people should play before commenting. How the new fact that every class (with the exception of droners?) now has para of some sort and that it'll almost certainly be modified to some extent in the rebalancing, I don't think there's any way we can say whether the new situation is going to be good or bad without actually playing.
I mean, oh my god, I might actually get my Thunderstorm out of storage and use it! :eek:
Keep The Monk The Way It Is...same Way Since Neocron 1......its Fucking Awesome How It Is Now
Ummm, yeah, right... not! Two points here:
1) It's not awesome.
2) The way they are now isn't the way they were at the start, middle or end of NC1. Please go back through the patch notes (yup, I want you to look at all 400 or however many patch notes) and count the number of changes to monks since the start of NC1.
And finally... The changes to shields are gonna be interesting. While it's quite hard to say what the actual impact will be, it might make changing my spy setup for drugging up to get them (obviously depending on what changes are made to reqs and stuff) well worth it.
You mean this might cause different PPUs to use different tactics!?! OH NOES! It might introduce more variety to PvP! We're doomed! :eek:
. Big fucking cookie for misunderstanding my post as a whine....
Big fucking cookie for misunderstanding my post as a whine....
Apologies. As I'm sure you understand it's quite hard to gauge the tone of a post.
And, most important of all, what about monk spells and LoS? Because that actually is the MAIN PROBLEM. And if you dont change that, monks will still be extremely superior to any other fighting class.
PSI modules need a line of sight in future.
I agree, it was more of a fact stating post than a 'toned' one.
PSI modules need a line of sight in future. Niicee.
Also with that new poison beam, there needs to be more protection against poison. And what about poison damage ignoring shelter/deflector? As it is now, theres 1 implant, 2 spells, 2 pieces of armor to increase por. Of which a spy for example cant really use any without completely fucking over his resist setup. I hope you actually think about that.
i like this actually more diverce setups pes can have poison resist no problem with other very good resist to
spies might get a little gimped if they choose to have poison true but they will have good wepaons and damage and their con should not be better or equilant to that of a tank for instance, all they worry about in resist are energy and fire atm(xray pa)
all in all i think thats cool
I'm pretty sure that they have stated somewhere that they are changing all armor
I hope I don't miss one :angel:
Shields (Deflector, Absorber, Protector) can be used on a runner at the same time (not like the SkillBoosters from PPU).
ShitBuffs: At the moment it is possible to cast a bigger shield on a runner so that he/she loose the selfcast-profit. If this becomes a problem we will fix this (maybe by changing the priorities) - but I think if you try to "ShitBuff" an enemy fighter with lets say a Holy Absorber you will loose your PSI Energy (or Mana) and your support-abilities in general.
APU Frozen Line: This DoT-Stun is so minimal - just like Freezer-Weapons can give as we said before. I think if you play it you can live with that. And believe me: We will setup the stun-effect moderate.
What we do with implants, armors, drugs: We are trying to close gaps (i.e. for poison damage), we fill in variations and balance everything. We have to wait for the testserver (-> your feedback) to see if everything is going the right way or if we missed something important.
Damage Values: Yes, this looks insane. But this is theoretical, 100 % percent weapon based (without runner influence) and without any resistances. We've putted in different modifiers to make the finetunings (i.e. PvP, PvE, Pistol Combat, ...) for now and for possible changes in the future :D
Please compare the different combat classes (our examples) and you will see that PSI Combat (APU) is on top but not at this "insane" size.
Oh and finally: We've missed that issue "SoulCluster"! What do you want?
Choice 1: Give it to PPUs but change them to "PvE Only"
Choice 2: Don't change it (so they will stay as they are for PPUs)
Choice 3: ...
Sorry: "Copy & Paste Devil" - The Holy Pestilence is a Barrel! o_O
I vote give it APUs, actually. Or just remove them, seeing as they are horribly bugged atm.
OK, Hypotehcial PVP PPU quickbelt:
1. Holy Heal
2. Holy Protector
3. Holy Deflector
4. Holy Absorber
5. Holy Unprotecter
6. Holy Catharsis
7. Holy Exorcist
8. Damage Boost
9. Holy Para
10. Psi Booster
11. (You wish) stam booster
So its tight, but possible. Thats assuming that DoT is going to be important enough to justify the catharsis. It also means that nobody is going to get any primes mid combat (if they still exist).
if the damage is 1000 per hit (ignore steal skin n everything else)
and 78% is absorbed for self casts but 28% for forien
say the total protection from the pool is 10000
will the self cast spell die first because it absorbs a greater amount of damage. or will they both die after the same amount of hits
(about 10-15 for self cast n 45-60 hits for forien casts)
Soulclusters, my thoughts.
1. Removing it from the PPU - that gives us a problem that PPU's can't level Soullight or Faction Sympathy using their primary skills.
2. PvE only - Same reason above, also PPU's use the Soulcluster to distract the mobs while there are rezzing in a cave run that has gone a bit wrong. :eek:
3. What about both classes, APU's and PPU's being able to use them?
At the moment, I'm in the camp of letting the PPU's keep Soulclusters, but please fix some of the bugs with them.
Don't relish the thought of getting me knife/sword out to level soulight as a pure support class.
Yet i see problems with soulcluster remaining PPU.
Would need to test it - But with debuffs + Anti heal + damage boost + soulcluster + sword/flamethrower :D + own heals and buffs etc.
you may be able to PvP without an APU :p
a few things
-snip-
PSI Disadvantage Series:
-ParaShock (Single, Group, Sanctum)
-snip-
Example #7: Crahn Holy Group ParaShock
Category: PSI Support, Group
TechLevel: 83
Cast frequency: 17.14 / Minute
Range: 191.92 Meter (75 %)
Duration: 120.00 Seconds
PSI-Energy-Use: 56.98 (125 %)
RunSpeedFactor: 0.9276 (Starting value) – ca. 93 % of the initial runspeed/turnspeed
Restrictions (ParaShock): 75 % reduction of the initial runspeed/turnspeed
ok what s a group parashock? i hope its not something that targets every member of a 10 man group and gives them parashock, also a parashock sanctum?!?
please no.
Also can you please explain why parashock (and or freezers) is still in the game as it is the one spell/ability that has been unanimously called for to be removed, and yet we have had no explanation why its still here (each time its been deflected).
if we must keep the spell then can we change it. instead of changing runspeed and turning circle, can we have it so that it gives drug flash effects (without the fuzzy screen) then players can still be combat effective but they wouldn't have full control.
or just ditch it from monks altogether, i am sure giving a form of it to apu's is a real bad idea.... looks like monk'o'cron will stay at this point.
And as for Soul clusters... why not try for a different approach, have it so its a pure passive spell, have it so that the soul cluster circles your body continusly but when you get hit, it fires back at the mob/person that shot you. and instead of having a short duration on it, give it a number of charges.
Maybe add the ability to aim it at someone? i dont know, but atleast this way the soul clusters bugs are kinda negated.
PSI modules need a line of sight in future.
This is wonderful news. :)
Thank you.
Doc Holliday
21-11-06, 16:05
Personal thoughts purely from reading is good although there is one issue which i think needs addressing and has been mentioned in this thread already.
Too many spells for a ppu to carry. Its getting a bit OTT with all the ones there are now. 3 different Sheilds is a bit much. i found it harder to play ppu before with all the spell switching if you wanted to give everyone what they wanted. ive seen others play with less spells and have slots for 3 boosters ( this was cutting it fine but all the same it was doable ) so now it seems like its being piled on. i feel the antibuff is a much better idea staying with the apu. it gives them something else to carry instead of the usual beam/barrel. even a db would be good for the apu imho. its an idea for sure.
however most of the changes look good so far. i havent gone in to the maths as im not good with figures that easy but this is my initial reaction in regards for what its worth.
james_finn
21-11-06, 16:10
My personal thought on Soulclusters would be to make the PvE only - BUT only if the damage that the SC's did was ramped up to allow PPUs to either level alone, or complete some of the kill missions. If not then I feel they should be PPU only.
Secondly with the number of spells for PPUs increasing is there any chance of a WoC belt that allows two quick belts swapable with a new key? If you consider everything there is for the PPU there wont be enough spots to hold them all. Therefore increase the work load of the PPU.
- Also are the weight of the spells getting a rethink? As more spells means less transport for PSI boosters.
/Delphi
edit: after making an imaginary quickbelt list of the new modules for a PPU - they will be carrying 6 rare spells, that makes the challenge of being a PPU a lot harder, if you die you have a much greater chance of dropping a spell that is harder to get/ have spares of.
1 Heal
2 Deflector
3 Absoption
4 Protector
5 Ressurection
6 Holy Catharsis
7 Holy Exorcist
8 Holy Unprotector
9 PSI Booster
10 Damage Boost
Dribble Joy
21-11-06, 17:05
ShitBuffs: At the moment it is possible to cast a bigger shield on a runner so that he/she loose the selfcast-profit.
In theory this is OK. The problem is when a PE or Spy get foreign casted by a holy or blessed spell and ends up with much less protection.
What I'd say is allow the holy spells to stack on usuals. This would mean PEs and Spies gain the full benefit of a PPU shield (even if it is minmal). A PPU casting a usual and a holy on a tank or APU would be pretty much a waste of time, and would mean they would need another 3 slots in the QB used up, an unlikely situation.
Choice 1: Give it to PPUs but change them to "PvE Only"
My preference, makes PPU leveling a bit more bareable.
PSI modules need a line of sight in future.
Oh my god, thank you thank you thank you. Sex in all your naughty holes.
Soulcluster idea?
Make ONE soulcluster TL. Just one. Maybe with the same requirements as the lowest level heal/combat boosters etc. But, when you cast it, the amount of damage/rate of fire it recieves is dependant on how much PPU you have, combined with how many PSI levels you have (Max, not base). So APUs could cast it, but because they have barely any PPU the damage will be no where near as good as a PPUs (but will recieve some damage because of high PSI). This allows PPUs to spec implants for leveling or whatever they need to kill stuff before(+PSI) because basically all PPUs have roughy the same point distribution.
Something like (numbers purely for example):
(PPU) - 100 PSI + 100 PPU = 100% SC damage.
(APU) - 100 PSI + 0 PPU = 50% SC damage.
(Hyb) - 100 PSI + 50 PPU = 75% SC damage.
Thoughts?
On the quickbelts...
I actually like all this. Because PPus would have to work together, i.e one for shields, one for antibuffs, one for heals and shit. It wouldnt be all in one ppu.
If you would just support one guy or a leveling team i still think theres enough space in the QB. Personal preference what spells to use. Adds more versatality. PPUs wont be all the exact same anymore. Good thing.
And DJ, the problem with foreign cast spells being weaker than selfcast, i hope KK think of that and simply make selfcast spells override any spell of the same class regardless of its strength.
I hope I don't miss one :angel:
Shields (Deflector, Absorber, Protector) can be used on a runner at the same time (not like the SkillBoosters from PPU).
ShitBuffs: At the moment it is possible to cast a bigger shield on a runner so that he/she loose the selfcast-profit. If this becomes a problem we will fix this (maybe by changing the priorities) - but I think if you try to "ShitBuff" an enemy fighter with lets say a Holy Absorber you will loose your PSI Energy (or Mana) and your support-abilities in general.
APU Frozen Line: This DoT-Stun is so minimal - just like Freezer-Weapons can give as we said before. I think if you play it you can live with that. And believe me: We will setup the stun-effect moderate.
What we do with implants, armors, drugs: We are trying to close gaps (i.e. for poison damage), we fill in variations and balance everything. We have to wait for the testserver (-> your feedback) to see if everything is going the right way or if we missed something important.
Damage Values: Yes, this looks insane. But this is theoretical, 100 % percent weapon based (without runner influence) and without any resistances. We've putted in different modifiers to make the finetunings (i.e. PvP, PvE, Pistol Combat, ...) for now and for possible changes in the future :D
Please compare the different combat classes (our examples) and you will see that PSI Combat (APU) is on top but not at this "insane" size.
Oh and finally: We've missed that issue "SoulCluster"! What do you want?
Choice 1: Give it to PPUs but change them to "PvE Only"
Choice 2: Don't change it (so they will stay as they are for PPUs)
Choice 3: ...
Sorry: "Copy & Paste Devil" - The Holy Pestilence is a Barrel! o_O
ShitBuffs?
Ok, So what if some asshole PPU Places a Mellee buff 3 over a Spies, Pistol Buff 3.... He lose's the ability to SHOOT/CAP his weapon :rolleyes:
So, if we try and shitbuff the enemy, we lose PSI pool, AND our abilities? hmm like a Anti-Buff?
Well, i now ive accidently caught people with my buffs before, and people have walked in LOS while buffing...
Yea i can imagine my PPU losing all his buffs because some idiot ran in and stole my Shelter lol
Sorry: "Copy & Paste Devil" - The Holy Pestilence is a Barrel! o_O
That sounds way better.
Could you please post the Holy Lightning of the future? I can't say, if the APU is "in line" with the other classes, when I don't know, what their main-weapon looks like...
derretimos
21-11-06, 19:27
will there be a woc apu weapon?
looks like some really interesting & cool stuff being done here
i will wait and see how it goes but i think u guys did a great job
something which a few other people said as well
my ppu quickbelt is already hard enough to manage
a lot of other popular mmo's let u bind keys to whatever spell u want...
ok maybe we cant do that right now, im not asking u to redo everything. but for the love of god give us at least 2 more slots on the quick belt? (it doesnt even have to show on the screen like the current quickbelt. u could just make it another window like the processor window if its too hard to redo the quickbelt rpos stuff. please give us more qb slots some way or another.)
Soulcluster idea?
Thoughts?
well, u asked, so... thats dumb. why does hybrids or apus need another way to damage people? they dont.
Oh and finally: We've missed that issue "SoulCluster"! What do you want?
Choice 1: Give it to PPUs but change them to "PvE Only"
that is the best option ive seen so far.
can we maybe up the damage a bit from what it is now if ur makin it pve only? maybe make it possible to level as a ppu?
Dribble Joy
21-11-06, 21:06
And DJ, the problem with foreign cast spells being weaker than selfcast, i hope KK think of that and simply make selfcast spells override any spell of the same class regardless of its strength.
Indeed. What I am concerned about though is the relative gain each class get from a PPU.
If self casts allways have priority and over-ride higher levels, that's good. But a PE or Spy (or even hybrids) still needs to benefit from the PPU's foreign shields. So that's why I think the holy spells should stack on the usuals, so that they also get the benefit.
Forget My Name
21-11-06, 21:32
Lets be real. PPUs in this game only level by capping as an apu then switching to a ppu.
A "fix" for this has been around this whole time, but now its time for the fix to be implemented.
Make the Soul Cluster PvE only, but raise its damage alot. I mean, make it so that soul clusters can deal 200+ damage to a 120/120 mob, and make the cluster fire much faster than it currently does.
Since the SC won't be PvP in this example, there is NO reason to keep it in it's current, weak, useless state.
John Doe, thank you for understanding my questions earlier, as many customers did not =).
Regarding the psi module LoS... and its implementation in the future... perhaps just add something along the lines of the projectiles that the black scorions use and then have the current gfx follow? or maybe just an invisible projectile (the same speed of which) followed by the gfx and damage.
Also my 2 cents... I believe it will be impossible to know the effectiveness of the balancing during a test server phase, there will be entirely too many things to test and theres always the chance that someone finds some "sweetspot" setup that is unanimously hated but nonetheless used for its overpowered-ness.
I'm happy that poison armor trees and such are being considered. And that holy pest is a barrel.
I'm not happy with the amount of spells a ppu is going to be in charge of... but they sound necessary... hopefully it wont promote more ppu usage to cover all of the choices.
And unlike most people, i like the suggested paras. They sound mild but still effective and in a more broad sense rather than *look he cant move, lets target him* since alot of them are aoe.
Soulclusters: Either...
1. Leave them be, they are useful in some pve situations.
2. Stick with the story line. (soul leaving the users body) and
A. single time damage shot that drains 50% hp/mana
B. have it used in a drone format w/ higher resists and lower damage by tl.
Oh and finally: We've missed that issue "SoulCluster"! What do you want?
Choice 1: Give it to PPUs but change them to "PvE Only"
Choice 2: Don't change it (so they will stay as they are for PPUs)
Choice 3: ...
Choice 1, but make it so that it's a bit more powerful.
Dribble Joy
21-11-06, 23:24
Some work on their AI/control features would be required btw.
Forget My Name
21-11-06, 23:27
Maybe a click to attack system for clusters.
When you cast a cluster, if you target an npc with it, the cluster will attack that type of monster and all monsters around it.
I always thought this would be nice.
instead of casting it near a bunch of mobs, only to have it float around and vanish into a wall.
Is any thought going into balancing, or more specifically, limiting APU AoE spells (ie. nerfing the damage and limiting the amount of mobs they can damage at once) so they're more fair in comparison to Tank/Drone AoE weapons?
The differences between the two in regards to damage dealt to a group of mobs in the same amount of time is just staggering.
Is any thought going into balancing, or more specifically, limiting APU AoE spells (ie. nerfing the damage and limiting the amount of mobs they can damage at once) so they're more fair in comparison to Tank/Drone AoE weapons?
The differences between the two in regards to damage dealt to a group of mobs in the same amount of time is just staggering.
I was duel logged at reagents today, on 2 /25 monks..
ppu at 40PSI and APU at 35 PSI... **/25 because of 20STR and 22DEX.. TL150 > Pantho
Anyway. I was outdamaging and got agro, from a CAPPED Droners spawn ... He was using a RK1000 - Ok he got numbers only slightly higher than mine. a Capped TL32 Multi energy blast. Outdamaged a RK1000, on a single mob AND a group, plus i was hitting all 30 mobs. he can only hit 6-8
Yeah, ty for the example. :p
You get about 2 high numbers with an RK1000 at most, of say 180-205 damage, the other few are usually lower than 65. A Monk does damage to nearly all the mobs at once with a constant amount and absolutely owns them because of how fast that damage is repeated. A droner can kill say 1/4 of a handful of those mobs in a large group at Regants by the time the Monk has killed at least half of them all with their AoE.
Edit: lol, I remember when Lightning Jack was a newbie, about half capped. I killed 3 capped people in NeoFrag with the Jones APU spell (Crahn's Justice is it?), then whooped the same people with an uncapped Psi Attack 2. If Monks still don't get LoS on the majority of APU spells, they should have their damage nerfed, because even the no LoS makes them incredibly overpowered.
Observation/predictions
-The idea propsed will lead again to the ppu having a lot of power. The range of what they can do now is bigger therefore skilled player gets a even bigger advantage.
-Now we will have 2x more ppus because they have to do 2x more.
Ultimately we will see 2 typoes of ppus, the agressive ones (antibuff, db, para) and the passive ones (shelter, deflector,heal,rezz,anti poison/freeze/db). Let me remind you that the antibuffer will be as hard to take down as a regular ppu.
-We will also see the total damage output/time of the APU monk increased, since he doesnt have to antibuff and not do damage for 6 secs. Is job is to shoot only, and that should be the tanks job, not the APU
/EDIT (knew i forgot something)
-The para barrel makes no sense !!! you dont want to see PPUs running around paraing everyone, this will be a big joke, even if they can para they team. Plz no.
Dream NC/My views
-that para be removed from the monk class and that all the other classes para weapon be boosted up to become a norm.
My point is that monks have enough powers already with shield/unshield db/undb rezz, etc.
-That Antibuff be given back to APU, as it makes sense to have them not "just shoot".
-Did I mention remove para from the PPU ?
No, the point is that if people want to do the same as they do now with their PPUs (which isn't possible because of the 23% protection from shields which also decreases with dmg), then they have to bring so many PPUs that it's not worth it any more. My bet is there will still be a PPU or two per team, but they aren't the givers of life any more, they are the tactical toolbox of the game.
Dargeshaad
22-11-06, 08:57
Ello, haven't read all the posts here so I'll just ask the question in hope it hasn't been answered.
Will it be possible to refresh the shields/heals etc. before they run out?
Dribble Joy
22-11-06, 11:41
Will it be possible to refresh the shields/heals etc. before they run out?
Something I've been asking for for a while. You can do it with drugs, why not buffs?
Ello, haven't read all the posts here so I'll just ask the question in hope it hasn't been answered.
Will it be possible to refresh the shields/heals etc. before they run out?
From the german thread:
Der Energiepool wird nicht angezeigt - lediglich die verbleibende Laufzeit (so wie es jetzt auch ist). Er kann allerdings übercastet werden, sofern er zu einem bestimmten Prozentsatz schlechter ist, als der Ausgangszustand.
Translation (kinda roughly):
The energy pool will not be displayed - only the remaining time (just like now). It can refreshed, if its level is under a certain percentage of the ininitial level.
Oh and finally: We've missed that issue "SoulCluster"! What do you want?
Choice 1: Give it to PPUs but change them to "PvE Only"
Choice 2: Don't change it (so they will stay as they are for PPUs)
Choice 3: ...
Choice 1:- Since i use it to distract enemies while rezzing <-- very useful.
You'll probably notice I haven't said much in these forums lately, tbh I'm waiting to try everything out before I make a comment. I think the most of it is good from what I have read.
just wondering but could it end up that op wars end up being mostly stealthy pes/spies and ppus just keep themselves alive + anti buff and give primes to the rest.. seeing as the ppus effect is a lot less than before it's a lot more usefull to bring a lot of damage dealers especially with the shields degrading.. so with the lack of powerfull heals the stealth whores will be able to wear down tanks/apus while keeping themselves alive, so everyone brings someone that can stealth... is stealth changing at all to stop this? (stop removing the target box?)
just thinking, a good team would be able to bring one ppu to damage boost + anti heal spam, then the rest of the team being stealth whores who can easily pick out the db'd enemy and drop them in a few seconds due to the lack of protection
op fights will be a lot more fast paced which is actually pretty cool, but a few things would need to change to keep the fight going long enough to really enjoy, the tank insta medkits need to do something like a full heal every 30-60 secs so they can be viable against the stealthing, also making rezzes take like 10 secs could be interesting, if someone starts rezzing you shouldn't ignore it, you should be ready to kill whoever's just been rezzed the second they're up
anyway i think people will try the whole ppu zerging thing but with shields degrading i'm not sure it will work (as long as ppus self cast shields degrade the same, else a full ppu op team would work :p)
Dribble Joy
22-11-06, 18:48
Making stealthers targetable would make their use in the thick of an OP fight minimal. So many players around you would be able to attack you without you being able to do much about it. PPU and self effects could be made to be invalid while in stealth too.
Assuming the armour, resist, imp, item and skill system remains as is.
Remember those are also absolute values, after steel skin, a shield and any armour you have that 900 figure will be much smaller, in the region of 50-200.
Yes but Spies do not have any armour or resists or shields for against Poison, so its a big fat juicy 0. :eek:
All in all I think these are great ideas and are the way forward, but we will not know for sure until it's been tried and tested.
The only thing so far that comes to mind is what about the combination of Psi-Boosters and Psi-Shields? At the moment Psi-Boosters re-charge the Psi-Pool at a fantastic rate, so will this be reduced to be more in-line with Medi-kits? Otherwise it becomes a 'super heal' that can be stacked with the heal spells also o_O
Forget My Name
22-11-06, 20:20
I was duel logged at reagents today, on 2 /25 monks..
ppu at 40PSI and APU at 35 PSI... **/25 because of 20STR and 22DEX.. TL150 > Pantho
Anyway. I was outdamaging and got agro, from a CAPPED Droners spawn ... He was using a RK1000 - Ok he got numbers only slightly higher than mine. a Capped TL32 Multi energy blast. Outdamaged a RK1000, on a single mob AND a group, plus i was hitting all 30 mobs. he can only hit 6-8
The most a droner can ever hit is 6. This was patched in some time ago.
Also, I have a huge post about this in the droner section. Monks have the best leveling out of anyone if done right. I don't mind monks having fast exp, but just make droners and aoe weapons hit past mobs like monk spells do, because as of right now, only monks have TRUE aoe.
The most a droner can ever hit is 6. This was patched in some time ago.
That gets prett fawking annoying, i'd like to see it gone.
Yes but Spies do not have any armour or resists or shields for against Poison, so its a big fat juicy 0. :eek:
Not having natural poison resists or a heavy poison belt would be your own fault if that was your vulnerability.
The point is, it doesn't matter what's done now, when 2.2 comes around, new setups will need to be made to take advantage of new armor/etc.
Sure you can use a belt, but if you think a Spy is going to be able to just switch from an Energy Belt to a Poison Belt in a situation that's larger than just 1v1, you're most certainly mistaken. Spies die fast enough when being shot at by monks because of the godly damage they deal while wearing an Energy Belt, let alone without one.
At present there's not much room to change Con setups around, and I doubt it'll be much different after balancing. Let's hope us Spies get some uber armour or bones that helps out a bit with Poison a bit more. Plus the odd spell (or tools as they're going to be called :p) as well preferably.
Something I've been asking for for a while. You can do it with drugs, why not buffs?
No way DJ
That would throw off a main Point of PVP.
The whole idea of a certain group being weak for a second, is a Strategy.
If we go on like this, doing stupid stuff like THAT. its going to be a point click game *_*
GOD OF HELL
23-11-06, 02:25
I'll say this. I think it is fairly nice that new changes are taking place. I think this will utilize the monk class more fittingly.
I believe Dribble Joy has some nice comments about the PvE perspective of the balancing monk class. I just don't believe you understand the PvP perspective of the monk. That is what is bothering me, only a few people help make these important twinks and nerfs of classes.
If only a few are the voice of many, we run into a democratic system where it no longer matters what the people who actually know most believe. Just like all the other ideas Dribble suggest, LOOK AT OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD TONS OF AGREEMENT BY OTHER PLAYERS advice on adjustments. Also, GERMANS ARN'T THE ONLY ONE'S WHO PLAY NC. I love this game but, some of the changes I see, especially to the Monk class have me wondering who is being listened to, and ultimately, is this game going from a nice mix of pve/pvp/rp to a RP/PVE game.
Most of what the game use to offer were pvpers/pve's, not rp/pve players. This is just terrible to have to play a game, read the forum, and see this game go to the ground in flames.
P.s. I played back in NC1 when the times were great. I never felt I needed to voice my opinion on the forums, the changes were being made. Now, when I read some of changes being made that arn't changing the game or taking it one step down, I ask myself this: It wasn't the bugs, no changes from NC1 to NC2, or the flaming done in game; it was simply this game went in the wrong direction, when WoW, EvE, and several other games were being popular.
Much more steps backwards and this game will sink, quicker then the Titanic.
Not having natural poison resists or a heavy poison belt would be your own fault if that was your vulnerability.
The point is, it doesn't matter what's done now, when 2.2 comes around, new setups will need to be made to take advantage of new armor/etc.
I'm not sure you know that the Spies Con level is the lowest in the game and therefore only has a limited number of setups that are actually viable. There just isn't enough points to cover all areas well enough. As for 2.2 requiring different setups, as I said before there just isn't the points to change for a viable setup...
...I really hope this is looked at more seriously.
I'm not sure you know that the Spies Con level is the lowest in the game and therefore only has a limited number of setups that are actually viable. There just isn't enough points to cover all areas well enough. As for 2.2 requiring different setups, as I said before there just isn't the points to change for a viable setup...
...I really hope this is looked at more seriously.
The way the game is at the moment, there's not much need for spies to have differing setups. But is this a good thing?
Is it such a bad thing if one spy has decided to go for poison resists and reduces another resist instead?
Your only complaint here seems to be "oh noes! There's not a single setup template I can follow anymore!" News flash for you: That's most likely going to happen anyway - in fact, if the different weapon types are now more balanced, it's definitely going to happen.
I'm not sure you know that the Spies Con level is the lowest in the game and therefore only has a limited number of setups that are actually viable. There just isn't enough points to cover all areas well enough. As for 2.2 requiring different setups, as I said before there just isn't the points to change for a viable setup...
...I really hope this is looked at more seriously.
That's kind of the entire point. Who says you're supposed to be able to cover all areas well enough? If you want to protect against everything, you'll be spread too thin, if you specialize in everything but poison, why shouldn't that be taken advantage of by the enemy? In the end, you choose how you're set up. Whenever you fight, you're gambling. If you have wide vulnerabilities like 0 poison resist, that's not someone elses fault. You could just as well have 0 energy resist and have all that in poison, but you know why that's not viable right now? Energy is widely used. But if there were a lot of poison weapon options, why shouldn't the enemy use them against you, just because you decided to ignore that damage type?
You can make an argument that maybe we have too many damage types, or not enough ways to protect against them, or not enough weaponry options to take advantage of them... but that's an issue for another thread.
That's kind of the entire point. Who says you're supposed to be able to cover all areas well enough? If you want to protect against everything, you'll be spread too thin, if you specialize in everything but poison, why shouldn't that be taken advantage of by the enemy? In the end, you choose how you're set up. Whenever you fight, you're gambling. If you have wide vulnerabilities like 0 poison resist, that's not someone elses fault. You could just as well have 0 energy resist and have all that in poison, but you know why that's not viable right now? Energy is widely used. But if there were a lot of poison weapon options, why shouldn't the enemy use them against you, just because you decided to ignore that damage type?
You can make an argument that maybe we have too many damage types, or not enough ways to protect against them, or not enough weaponry options to take advantage of them... but that's an issue for another thread.
Can i ask you, Do you have a spy yourself?
you say about spreading out too thin if we were to spec in all resists but in actual fact we would be so thin that before we had good poison we would break....
The only spy that would not give a shit about resists is a sniper spy which generally stays at distance with a SH or summit, but a close combat spy aka a pistol spy rele rele rele cnt afford to spec poison
Don't forget that things like armour are being redone too, so (hopefully) spies will get more choice in what their armour and implants do for them (or against them) allowing for a wider variety of setups.
At the end of the day every character setup is going to have its weaknesses - otherwise they'd just end up godlike and we'll be back to monk-/spy-/tank-/pe-o-cron again, which would kind of negate the whole point of the balancing project.
What will, imo, hopefully happen is that characters will have a greater variety of resist setups so that, for example, a monk can't just go "oh look, a spy! EAT POISON SCUM!"
Dribble Joy
23-11-06, 17:27
No way DJ
That would throw off a main Point of PVP.
The whole idea of a certain group being weak for a second, is a Strategy.
If we go on like this, doing stupid stuff like THAT. its going to be a point click game *_*
I'm in two minds about it really. Heals no, shields maybe, buffs why not?
Can allways restrict it to self casts anyway.
I believe Dribble Joy has some nice comments about the PvE perspective of the balancing monk class. I just don't believe you understand the PvP perspective of the monk. That is what is bothering me, only a few people help make these important twinks and nerfs of classes.
Elaborate please.
RogerRamjet
23-11-06, 21:35
Elaborate please.
I think he's trying to say you're a self confessed private eye man :p
I sure hope someone remakes neoskiller to include the additions and changes to imps, armour weapons etc.
This is going to be like the stone-age all over again..
I sure hope someone remakes neoskiller to include the additions and changes to imps, armour weapons etc.
You can edit it all yourself through NeoEditor or something but the only prob would be the skill changes to the tank unless u can change them too
You can edit it all yourself through NeoEditor or something but the only prob would be the skill changes to the tank unless u can change them too
This is true,
Apart from armour values, and percentages to work armour out etc
did you name it absorber so instead of sd we could say asd?
cute.
What exactly does " -Melee Weapons Striking distance (+ tolerance factor)" the +tolerance factor mean?
That's kind of the entire point. Who says you're supposed to be able to cover all areas well enough? If you want to protect against everything, you'll be spread too thin, if you specialize in everything but poison, why shouldn't that be taken advantage of by the enemy? In the end, you choose how you're set up. Whenever you fight, you're gambling. If you have wide vulnerabilities like 0 poison resist, that's not someone elses fault. You could just as well have 0 energy resist and have all that in poison, but you know why that's not viable right now? Energy is widely used. But if there were a lot of poison weapon options, why shouldn't the enemy use them against you, just because you decided to ignore that damage type?
You can make an argument that maybe we have too many damage types, or not enough ways to protect against them, or not enough weaponry options to take advantage of them... but that's an issue for another thread.
Have you ever played a Spy before? o_O All I'm saying is that this will cause Spies to be less combat orientated as they won't be as viable in combat as say a PE/TANK or MONK. In fact only a Rifle Spy could be able to get away with this prehaps, but it CERTAINLY makes Pistol Spies redundent!
Anything that limits or reduces the existing flexability of this type of game is a bad thing! It will only help reduce the already depleated player base.
Oh and I never said it was anyone else's fault so don't put words in my mouth. As for ignoring the Poison damage type, as I already explained which perhaps you cared to ignore - NOT ENOUGH CON POINTS!
You're making this out to be much worse than it is, spies don't have poison resist (besides a belt, which they would just switch out to, leaving themself vulnerable if the opponent changes weapon again) at the moment, are they redundant? Are they useless? Hardly. If you want a class that covers all resistances well, go make a tank.
My main problem is that Monks in neocron is like Superman in the Justice League.... theres no point in the other characters being there.
They have the highest damage, and they have a decent range, but in this case range doesnt really mean anything as that gap can be closed rather readily, id quite like it if their range was shorter than pistols (or maybe a small overlap). As otherwise monks still seem the premier class to bring.
GOD OF HELL
25-11-06, 08:22
I mean when I look at the changes, I can see this game is making tons of improvements and some things that don't make as much sense. I then ask myself outside of the guys talking in the conference room or small kitchen or whatever place the people of KK meet, where do they get their ideas and who do they listen to.
By nature, I am to believe you (yes, you Dribble Joy) are one that foremost try to get your opinion in and tell the different GM's your ideas. I noticed that a lot of changes that are occuring show that pvp as we know it is not even much of a focus. All the balancing is focused around the pve perspective and there is a lot of smart ideologic thinkers that understand pvp A LOT better then you.
Outside of the developers, someone must have some form of influence. I am just stating like I did in another game, only those who make their voices heard on forum affect the changes of the game. And, I do not want this game to be another game that replicates the ideas of forums and how people feel on situations.
Sometimes good ideas are carved into the forums, sometimes bad ideas are carved into the forums, and 4/5 of the time, RP/PVE players like Dribble Joy who are the only one's who really care about forums (and forget that pvper's want to see changes too) get carved into the forums.
I mean when I look at the changes, I can see this game is making tons of improvements and some things that don't make as much sense. I then ask myself outside of the guys talking in the conference room or small kitchen or whatever place the people of KK meet, where do they get their ideas and who do they listen to.
By nature, I am to believe you (yes, you Dribble Joy) are one that foremost try to get your opinion in and tell the different GM's your ideas. I noticed that a lot of changes that are occuring show that pvp as we know it is not even much of a focus. All the balancing is focused around the pve perspective and there is a lot of smart ideologic thinkers that understand pvp A LOT better then you.
Outside of the developers, someone must have some form of influence. I am just stating like I did in another game, only those who make their voices heard on forum affect the changes of the game. And, I do not want this game to be another game that replicates the ideas of forums and how people feel on situations.
Sometimes good ideas are carved into the forums, sometimes bad ideas are carved into the forums, and 4/5 of the time, RP/PVE players like Dribble Joy who are the only one's who really care about forums (and forget that pvper's want to see changes too) get carved into the forums.That's bullshit. :)
Even though DJ is not the best pvper and not even one who devotes all of his time ingame to pvp he knows the game and usually got good ideas about balancing.
Hell, pretty much all i ever do in NC is pvp. Yet i agree with most stuff DJ posts on the forums.
You just sound jelous. :lol:
"smart ideologic thinkers that understand pvp A LOT better"
And anyway, who would THAT be then?
/edit
And on spies and poison, calm down guys. First off, the holy pestilence is not gonna be a rare poison beam, it will stay as a barrel.
Second theres gonna be alot more changes to the spy class, including new armor. So just wait for the testserver.
Hmm, well the changes are a mixed bag, so I'll adress them bit by bit.
The ppu changes sound good for the most part, reduct ppu dependency at ops, let other classes espesualy those with self buffs shine, ectra. All that stuff is good.
Reticals-Fine, doesn't matter much, have no issue with the change.
Los-In a perfect world monks should have no los, but due to the engine I think the best solution is just give them los like everyone else. So fine, again a good change.
Hybrids-can't tell yet, just balance them and ffs give them a different role than PEs have. Atm the biggest issue I have with hybrids is they are basicly PEs that use apu mods. The issue then is its not possible to balance the two togeather, one will always be better at their job since they are in fact almost the same class atm.
Apus- Ok, here is where I don't like things so much. Note that I'm not talking about apu/ppu teams here, it remains to be seen how that balances, but I am of the opinion that the "glass cannon" class should not only be playable with a ppu. For the enjoyment of both the apus and players they fight, I think that at least to some extent, apus need to be a viable solo PVP class.
So..
Issue 1 with apus:
No heal of any sort, reliance on medkits which they cannot carry many of due to low trans.
Solution (or one possible one): Give apus a special heal that uses ppw as a req instead of ppu. Make it heal at the same rate as a capt tl 10 however, the heal takes 2 seconds after cast to start healing and if ANY dmg is taken over its duration, then the heal is removed. This would let apus heal up in between fights in a real world envornment without giving them any more power during the actual fight.
Issue 2: Apus are very prone to ganging in pvp if unsupported, way moreso than any other class. Now it is true this is inherent in a "glass cannon" however in most games these glass cannons are given ways to avoid dmg so they don't have to take it.
My suggestion: Now this is a little contreversial. But what if apus were given a self buff, that returned say, 50% of dmg delt to the atacker, now note this isn't as high a number as it sounds because if a you are doing 100 dmg to an apu a hit for instance you're only going to take 25 or 30 dmg back because your resists are better. Although the number I put out needs tweeking, I think that this would keep apus from being "ganged" without fear of repurcusion. Not only that but in a team enviornment it means that there is not an advantadge to going for the apu first all the time. Where before you took down their highest dmg dealer, and took him down the fastest. Now you may take him out fast, but you take a lot of dmg yourself and might end up dieing to his allys right about the time you kill him.
Issue 3: Lack of versitility with no antibuff. Fairly self explanitory, it is somwhat key for the "glass cannon" to be able to strip the oponent of their defences in order to kill them quickly. Although I see why antibuff was given to ppus it left apus in a tricky spot.
My solution: Make both antibuff and dmg boost "psi" spells, let ppw affect them the way apu/ppu did before, and balance apu dmg to reflect the fact that they have db. There now apus have utility but are still not the only class to pair with a ppu because ppus still have such spells.
Anyway, the balancing project is just that, a project, it won't be perfect untill its been tested, alot. Overall many of the chages look good, I am simply concerned about the fate of the lone or unsupported apu as I think that no class should require ppu support to be viable in pvp. So..as we nerf the apu/ppu team (and thank god for that) we should also fix the other end of that spectrum and make sure that the apu becomes a viable class to play solo, just like any other. (And I'm NOT saying all classes should be on even footing solo, just like not all should be on even footing with a ppu. But every class should be viable both solo and with a ppu.)
Dribble Joy
25-11-06, 16:24
There may be whole series of armour type that could be intergrated into the usual lineup of armour and whould allow people to spec 'decent' poison resists. So it's not quite the time to start throwing toys from the proverbial pram just yet.
Besides, with poison now seemingly an integral dmg type, people will have to start speccing high levels. If anything I want to see a point where chars have equal fire, xray, energy and poison armours.
I'm not too keen on classes having specific dmg type weaknesses, strengths maybe, but not vulnerabilities. By which I mean ones that are not volantary, you can choose to forgo all your fire defence for more whatever, but specifically making a particular class to be unable to defend themselves against a dmg type (without 'gimping') is unfair on them and will force people to use cirtain weapons against them, rather than allowing people to use whatever weapon they like.
You can edit it all yourself through NeoEditor or something but the only prob would be the skill changes to the tank unless u can change them tooYou can.. I know cause I already have. (it's in one of the xml files)
edit:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i213/neosigs/neoclasses.jpg
Dribble Joy
25-11-06, 17:32
What we don't know is what the starting number of points the tank will get in int or dex. Clearly they will get 25 more points from the extra levels, but it will be more at the start in char generation. We can make an educated guess, but we really don't know.
My main problem is that Monks in neocron is like Superman in the Justice League.... theres no point in the other characters being there.
They have the highest damage, and they have a decent range, but in this case range doesnt really mean anything as that gap can be closed rather readily, id quite like it if their range was shorter than pistols (or maybe a small overlap). As otherwise monks still seem the premier class to bring.
*coughs* you forgot to mention their very high run speed and the re-loading issue (psi-boosters) 8|
What we don't know is what the starting number of points the tank will get in int or dex. Clearly they will get 25 more points from the extra levels, but it will be more at the start in char generation. We can make an educated guess, but we really don't know.It's 78-40-20-10-2 for every class from strong stat to weak isn't it? The only question with the tank is those 2 piddling points in psi.. but this is horribly OT so that's all I have to say. ;p
Dribble Joy
25-11-06, 20:31
A tank has 553 in str in total, but 520 in con.
Spy has 553 in int, but 525 in dex.
Monk has 553 in psi, but 525 in int.
A monk has 185 in dex, but a PE has 172 in psi.
(going on my skill manager)
I think it's important to realise (and balance) what these numbers can amount to with modifiers - drugs, buffs, implants etc etc.
A tank has 553 in str in total, but 520 in con.
Spy has 553 in int, but 525 in dex.
Monk has 553 in psi, but 525 in int.
A monk has 185 in dex, but a PE has 172 in psi.
(going on my skill manager)
Yes, and that's because Tanks start with 5 STR, 4 CON, whereas Spies have 5 INT, 3 DEX and PSI Monks 5 PSI, 3 INT. Tanks get the short stick on one of their main skills.
Summary (For the skimming GM):
1. Tanks have 5 too little points in Con in comparison to other classes (they should either start with 5 more or with one less con level)
2. A tank would usually end up with 47 free points in psi, taking this out as 10 levels and placing it somewhere else should be thought of accordingly. Basically by removing 3 points from either dex or int's starting value in char creation.
I got a small question/request..
Are you planning to do anything about the psi casting animation introduced with nc2? I'm kinda tired of dieing so often because i simply cant cast a heal or shelter and just see those waving hands. I hope you dont mind me asking this here... if you think its wrong here ill just start a normal thread. :p
Besides that that sure reads interesting. Some nice ideas (esp no more shitbuffing :D) and im really looking forward to try em out on the testserver and give feedback.
Are you planning to do anything about the psi casting animation introduced with nc2? I'm kinda tired of dieing so often because i simply cant cast a heal or shelter and just see those waving hands. I hope you dont mind me asking this here... if you think its wrong here ill just start a normal thread. :p
How do you know that spells don't cast because of the animation and not another bug?
How do you know that spells don't cast because of the animation and not another bug?
Well i never had this happen before (at least i cant remember it ) nc2 introduced the waving hands...
To me it just seems like its trying to finish the animation before it lets you cast something else. But hey im no coder so i might be wrong.
Whatever it is i just want it fixed ;)
*coughs* you forgot to mention their very high run speed and the re-loading issue (psi-boosters) 8|
I think the runspeed in this game is a another issue in itsself... something that the whole game needs readressing.
One important question, what about clipping? I'm really sick of fighting people who clip through hills and round corners, when you think you have a lock then suddenly they're gone.
One important question, what about clipping? I'm really sick of fighting people who clip through hills and round corners, when you think you have a lock then suddenly they're gone.
Yeh....clipping rele does have something to do with the topic title :wtf: If im correct they would have to completely re-code the engine to fix clipping.
Well i never had this happen before (at least i cant remember it ) nc2 introduced the waving hands...
To me it just seems like its trying to finish the animation before it lets you cast something else. But hey im no coder so i might be wrong.
Whatever it is i just want it fixed ;) NC's code got changed to help stop cheating, so it could be because of that. Until they do find a fix (if they ever do...), try waiting a second after switching spells before casting.
NC's code got changed to help stop cheating, so it could be because of that. Until they do find a fix (if they ever do...), try waiting a second after switching spells before casting.
Yes guys? Just been HAB'd
Please wait a second or 2 before casting that holy shelter guys. Remember thats only 3 Holy Lightnings while ur waiting...
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Yes guys? Just been HAB'd
Please wait a second or 2 before casting that holy shelter guys. Remember thats only 3 Holy Lightnings while ur waiting...
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:a second or 2? I said 1 second, and that's 1 HL at most which beats the 3 that you would get due to the wavy hand bug. Although most good PPUs would have their shelter out before the hab ends.
ashley watts
26-11-06, 20:35
Yeh....clipping rele does have something to do with the topic title :wtf: If im correct they would have to completely re-code the engine to fix clipping.
Lies, your the first on vent to whine about clippers :p dont act like you dont want it fixed :p pffft grumpy arse
/signed for fixing of teh clippa !
The problem with the clipping thing is that everyone thinks its the other person who clips.
Say for instance your in pvp and your chasing someone who runs up and over a small hill. Chances are they will clip thru the hill.
But if you follow them chances are you will also clip thru the hill.
Just because noone see's you do it doesnt mean you didnt.
For want of a better phrase, if a tree falls down in a forest and noone is there does it still make a sound?
As someone said to me earlier, the only way to not clip is to not move.
Anyway back to the topic...
The wavey handy thing, i dont really like it from an aesthetics point of view, it would be nice if it was something simple and shorter. But it doesnt effect the way i play. Just wait that little bit of time between casting when your changing spells. Everyone gotta put up with it so atleast it even.
As someone said to me earlier, the only way to not clip is to not move.
.The way not to clip is to not run around objects constantly to avoid getting hit.
The wavey hand thing doesn't always happen right after equipping spells, it can happen if you've had the spell equipped for any amount of time. Happened to me a few times, rarely though.
The way not to clip is to not run around objects constantly to avoid getting hit.
Even if clipping was not part of the game people would run behind objects to avoid getting hit? You know why? Becaues "running for cover" is a good way to not die. You'd be stupid to just stand out in the open if you're dieing.
Even if clipping was not part of the game people would run behind objects to avoid getting hit? You know why? Becaues "running for cover" is a good way to not die. You'd be stupid to just stand out in the open if you're dieing. I didn't even give my opinion, so don't try to argue with me whether it's good or bad.
GOD OF HELL
27-11-06, 13:30
Don't listen to Giga, last time I did, he sucker punched me in the back of my head and stole my quarter right out of my pocket.
Clipping was a terrible idea in the game, THE END.
HL should have some kind of cool down to stop constant damage, Fire Apoc should be less of a dot type of damage and more of a strong damage with a small dot, APU's should get invulnerbility, given by the a mythical creature like Superman...THE END.
Ppu's should be weakened but, so should have some of the mobs like MC5 guards weakened to prevent the need for more powerful PPU's. Ppu's should be tough to kill but, not to the point where 4-5 players could not kill one. And we need a very elite ppu to come back to restore order to the forums, use a Holy Rezz on one of the great one's...THE END.
Don't listen to Giga, last time I did, he sucker punched me in the back of my head and stole my quarter right out of my pocket.
Clipping was a terrible idea in the game, THE END.
HL should have some kind of cool down to stop constant damage, Fire Apoc should be less of a dot type of damage and more of a strong damage with a small dot, APU's should get invulnerbility, given by the a mythical creature like Superman...THE END.
Ppu's should be weakened but, so should have some of the mobs like MC5 guards weakened to prevent the need for more powerful PPU's. Ppu's should be tough to kill but, not to the point where 4-5 players could not kill one. And we need a very elite ppu to come back to restore order to the forums, use a Holy Rezz on one of the great one's...THE END.
I dont get what this is THE END of :wtf:
And all these leveling spots tat people state are 'OverPowered' are not! you just need some decent tactics, like as u stated, MC5; this place is very easy to do as a PPU + Tank team and another very easy way which i dont know about cus im a good boy... but all of these places r very easy to do once u know how.
Forget My Name
27-11-06, 16:03
So how will all this affect PE's and their shelters/damage boosting?
So how will all this affect PE's and their shelters/damage boosting?
I doubt PE's will be able to Damage Boost soon. Take a look on the first page of this thread Holy db is gona be TL46, let alone the requirements.
Dribble Joy
27-11-06, 17:08
I didn't notice that.... tl46 is way too low, it means the hybrids are going to get it too.
Either you are going to have to balance them with or without it.
Balance with and they loose out in a team situation, without and they rule the solo arena.
Make it tl70 or so.
Maybe introduce a tl 20 version (with a high ppu req to stop PEs and spies using it) that's PvM only to help those leveling at lower levels.
Don't listen to Giga, last time I did, he sucker punched me in the back of my head and stole my quarter right out of my pocket. I'm 100% sure what you're trying to say, but I think you misunderstood something
I didn't notice that.... tl46 is way too low, it means the hybrids are going to get it too.
Either you are going to have to balance them with or without it.
Balance with and they loose out in a team situation, without and they rule the solo arena.
Make it tl70 or so.
Maybe introduce a tl 20 version (with a high ppu req to stop PEs and spies using it) that's PvM only to help those leveling at lower levels.they said there would be normal, blessed and holy versions of all/most spells, just wondering if the same will apply for damage boost which has always only been holy
Dribble Joy
27-11-06, 17:36
Well the example given was for the holy. If there's lower ones then there's definitely an issue with balance in my view.
Heavyporker
27-11-06, 17:51
Had some spare time so I decided to reread the first post.
- New interpretation of Holy Catharsis - why bother removing fire/xray stack? And why is energy DoT mentioned?
- Is new Holy Truesight Sanctum still worthless, or have you tweaked the ticks to hit more often or continously, therefore becoming actually useful?
- The PSI Shields, are they stackable (A/S/D all in one go) or only one type may be on at a time, forcing people to choose Shelter *or* Deflector?
- And what about the psi-energy burning PSI Shield that protected your hitpoints? Does any PPU really use this? Why not for APUs?!
- Why should there be a Unprotector for PPUs? This blurs the line, just as Damage Boost for PPUs does.
- I noticed the emphasis on the PPU not having any agressive combat styles - Did you guys take in account the possiblity of the PPU taking up a rifle/pistol, or of course, the SoulCluster, though I note it was not included in the lineup of psi modules that underwent adjusting.
This might be slightly off topic, but it is still PSI.
I might not be taking everything in account, but, if PEs loose DB... Is the "Good Old" Melee PE and a couple of lowtechs will loose out? Or will this be done otherways, like through the new debuffing PE toys?
PEs should lose damage boost, they should be balanced. The idea of a lowtech PE is they have high defence and low damage. At the moment it's not quite so, considering the resist sweet spots, damage boost, slasher and xbow they can use when coupled with the defence they can get.
Dribble Joy
27-11-06, 21:07
The skill system is the trouble with DB.
Previously a high tech player with low tech resists (such as myself) got low tech damage. High techers with more skilled in offence got lower defences.
The problem now is that you get get what were low tech resists with capped high tech weapons (or resists/defence that is inproportionate to their offence). Thus low techs now 'need' DB in order to compete. The problem is of course that high techers can use DB as well.
Hopefully with 2.2 the skill system will be such that the offence/defence balance means that your weapon choice and offence skilling has the right impact on your defences.
An open ended dmg on weapons would be the easiest method (Ie. no dmg cap), though the effect of cirtain skills on weapon stats would have to change.
Thus a melee using PE, though his offence is lower than somone with a tl 100 weapon (assuming the relative skilling of the tl100 weapon using player is higher) would have higher defences.
Damage:
- APU Weapons 100 %
- Cannons 90 %
- Rifles 80 %
- Pistols 75 %
- Melee Weapons 65 %
Bonus-System:
- HighTech Weapons + 5 % (additive)
- Rare Weapons + 7.5 % (exclusive)
- Epic Weapons + 9.5 % (exclusive)
- WoC Weapons + 10 % (exclusive)
Aim speed (1.50 – 4.50 Seconds, Min | Max):
- Melee Weapons deactivated
- PPU Weapons deactivated
- APU Weapons 0.75 1.50
- Pistols 0.75 2.25
- Rifles 1.00 3.00
- Cannons 2.00 4.50
Note: Smaller is better – the aim speed only applies to PSI combat modules.
Aim precision (Reticule, Min | Max):
- APU Weapons 1.50 3.00
- Rifles 1.50 3.50
- Pistols 1.50 4.00
- Cannons 1.50 5.00
Note: Smaller is better – only applies to PSI combat modules.
Firing frequency (45 – 120 shots/minute, Min | Max):
- Rifles 45 120
- Pistols 30 120
- Melee Weapons 40 60
- APU Weapons 30 60
- Cannons 15 45
Range (50 – 600 Meters, Min | Max):
- Cannons 300 600
- Rifles 200 600
- APU Weapons 100 300
- Pistols 50 150
- Melee Weapons Striking distance (+ tolerance factor)
Clip Size
All PSI modules will continue to use PSI energy – therefore clip sizes do not apply.
I still feel Balance needs to be considered by combining the different aspects of the weapon classifications, not just looking at them seperately.
Monk Weapon Pro's:
Fastest Aiming
Highest Precision
Highest Damage
No re-load Issue (psi-boosters re-charge Psi Points very fast)
(various other abilties not available to other classes - DB, Rez, De-Buff, etc)
Monk Weapon Con's (not really Con's at all)
They do not have the highest range, but that doesn't make a difference considering the 'actual' clipping range plus the speed Monks can travel to get into range takes no time at all.
Their Firing Frequency is not the highest, but with the combined speed of their aiming plus the highest damage output they are going to hit and deal huge damage before anyone else can hit them.
I really cannot see any reason to keep the o