PPUs

[Lifewaster]

I have tested PPU quite a bit now.

Overall the balance changes seem good , the 3 min shields/heals is nice . And its great to see that PPU assistance will no longer dominate PvP, however the effects of PPU on other players probably needs to adjust more.

Currently the support you provide is a little too weak....particularly due to the malus on foreign casts.

For example , a self cast shield on a PE/Spy can reach 20-40% resist , while a foreign cast holy from a PPU will be max at 20% resist.This means the only ppl who its at all worthwhile to cast foreign shields on is a Tank/APU.....but even then it doesnt help the tank much since its only 20% resist.

Same goes for holy heal .....self-cast a ppu heals 70ish , but foreign cast this is only 20ish. The tl 10 jones heal can do 24 self cast by PE/Spy. So again, its useless for a PPU to cast heal on anyone except a tank/apu.....but even then it doesnt really help them very much.

I think foreign holy heal+shields, should become slightly higher then non-holy self casts...foreign holy shields, should work out about the same as self cast blessed probably.....well maybe not that high, but 35%-45% or so resist perhaps.

...........


The PPU self defence and self-heal is still very strong.....which seems about right. My ppu gets about 80-90% resist vs pretty much any dmg, coupled with 70/tick self heal.

[Glok]

Well there are still all the level 3 boosters.. and now antibuffing. A PPU is gonna be pretty busy anyways without having to keep heals and shields on everyone.

[Dribble Joy]

Full lvl4 monk armour and a ionic cotton PJ of some kind should get you much more than 90 in each armour type (though xray might be tough, the 69 int PJ only adds 57 xray).

The self cast shields and PPU foreigns is a problem that I knew would continue. PEs and Spies won't get the full benefit of PPU support (and though 20% is kinda low, it's better than jack shit and much apprieciated by tanks and apus).

[Glok]

Also, doesn't this put the PPU in the 'nice to have, but not a requirement' category.. where any class should be, and where we have been saying they should be?

[Dribble Joy]

Yes, though I'd still like it be a balanced and fair system.

Good to hear there's little or no need for the most unbalancing effect PPUs have allways had, foreign holy heal. If it's down to tl10 levels then this really is a step in the right direction (universal heal rates ftw! (though there's still an issue with heal rates relative to hp)).

[Lifewaster]

Yep its definitely better now, better to err on the side of underpowering then overpowering the foreign casts.

But the foreign shields will need to be adjusted in order to let classes reach their defense caps.

eg: A tank gets 88% resist cap....... self un-buffed he gets maybe 55% from armor/resists, PPU buffed he gets maybe 62% total .......so thats obviously shows hes not getting enough from the ppu for example.

eg: APU on other hand, has 75% resist cap ....self un-buffed he makes maybe 40% from armor/resists....with PPU he would get 50% or so....

Basically, for the resist caps to be meaningful, they should become reachable with a PPU support, is my general point :p

[CMaster]

OK, I've indulged in some PPU + tank PVP, and I'd like to try more in a similar vein if people aer cooperative.
Anyhow, said combo was very effective provided that the opposition didn't use rayguns. It is worth commenting that at least without other PPUs around, the PPU's job is all about debuffing the target, not buffing their fighter. Antiprotector and holy DB both make a signifcant difference - para is a waste of time.

My main concern is the complete lack of relative benefit. The only thing a PE or Spy gains from a PPU is the debuffs on their opponent. In theory the primes would be useful, in practice everybody already specs enough points that the prime benefits are almost unnoticable. The shields are not really as agood as selfcast shields (although spies can't get either P or A on their own, I foget (oh, and "PAD" is the new "S/D" - its been decided)). Resist buff is nice and all, but very specific.

A tank on the other hand, gains hugley from a PPU (more than an APU, if things works would). They are the one case where the weapon primes make a difference (weapon lore boost results in percpetible improvements in HC aiming/Melee frequency). Their inability to psi heal is replaced by a very effective heal. Their complete lack of shields is replaced by capped effectivness foreign shields. Then like a pop, their opponents lose all those selfcast shields...

2.2 is a step in the right direction for PPUs. However it still creates a favoured combo. I want to test PPU + Melee Tank vs 2 reasonable PEs/Spies, and possibly some 3 on 3s too, before saying their is imbalance.

[Lifewaster]

It is worth commenting that at least without other PPUs around, the PPU's job is all about debuffing the target, not buffing their fighter. Antiprotector and holy DB both make a signifcant difference - para is a waste of time.


Considering we dont want PPUs to dominate, its probably good that shields are only 20% ish , because this meant anti-buffing has a lesser effect.

But then the point regarding letting tanks hit their caps, would mean they need their self resistance from armor/skill to be boosted somewhat more? In order that they would have the 88% reachable after gettign foreign shields.

[Dribble Joy]

But the foreign shields will need to be adjusted in order to let classes reach their defense caps.

eg: A tank gets 88% resist cap....... self un-buffed he gets maybe 55% from armor/resists, PPU buffed he gets maybe 62% total .......so thats obviously shows hes not getting enough from the ppu for example.
Isn't it that the classes have those resist caps from armour total, then the shields remove what's left?

[Lifewaster]

No the resist caps for class, apply to the overall resist....including shields. The cap basically comes into force at the end of the dmg calculation, if the cap is exceeded, then the overall dmg resisted becomes limited to what the cap was.....other wise the cap has no effect.


Currently the only class that hits his cap is the hybrid.

example:

Hybrid Dmg log:

Damage: 21.481 Target Force HitZone 0 - Part 0
Damage: 5.195 (Reduction: 16.286 - 75.816 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 3.989 (Reduction: 17.493 - 81.432 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 3.189 (Reduction: 18.292 - 85.154 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Class resistance cap reached: 0.750
Results of this target: Damage 5.370 (Reduction: 16.111 - 75.000 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.750!

As you see , the hybrid hit his cap immediatly by shields alone.....in fact his shield went over the cap...

So you see his armor and skills had no effect in the end, the resulting dmg was 5.3 (75% reduced)

And If he had no armor and no con, the dmg would still have been the same.

[Glok]

But does he hit his cap for every damage type? I think that's the point of those caps, we aren't necessarily meant to reach the cap in every resist.

[Lifewaster]

But does he hit his cap for every damage type? I think that's the point of those caps, we aren't necessarily meant to reach the cap in every resist.

A hybrid? Yes he will hit 75% vs every dmg type simply due to shields (his shields make 75+% vs everything basically) . However its already been aknowleged thay hybrids will be changed.

[Dribble Joy]

I suppose we'll be seeing APUs and tanks speccing their armour to hit cap with foreign shields and dump the rest in ath and/or htl :p.

[Lifewaster]

I suppose we'll be seeing APUs and tanks speccing their armour to hit cap with foreign shields and dump the rest in ath and/or htl :p.

I guess thats the design plan, but atm, I dont think apu or tank can reach those caps.

Heres my dmg log for a monk with foreign shields:

Damage: 440.837 Target Energy HitZone 1 - Part 1
Damage: 346.570 (Reduction: 94.266 - 21.384 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 189.317 (Reduction: 251.520 - 57.055 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 143.376 (Reduction: 297.461 - 67.476 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 143.376 (Reduction: 297.461 - 67.476 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.920!

Damage: 62.966 Target X-Ray HitZone 1 - Part 2
Damage: 49.502 (Reduction: 13.464 - 21.384 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 36.720 (Reduction: 26.246 - 41.682 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 27.685 (Reduction: 35.281 - 56.032 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 27.685 (Reduction: 35.281 - 56.032 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.920!

So 67% vs energy, 56% vs xray.....note I had the max possible monk nrg armor on. And I had 50 con in nrg and xray.

I guess a well specced APU could get overall about 55-65% vs everything with foreign buffs.....and putting like every single con point into nrg could result in him maybe hitting 75% vs nrg...but thats gimping every other resist totally.

But the more I look at it, you could be right, and it is possible to hit the cap for a tank/apu if they go all out in 1 type.

[Lifewaster]

Another interesting thing is , the way shields wear down as you take dmg.

For example:

A ROLH user shooting a buffed PPU....

initially....

Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 369.102 Target Energy HitZone 0 - Part 0
Damage: 99.033 (Reduction: 270.068 - 73.169 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 54.853 (Reduction: 314.249 - 85.139 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 41.542 (Reduction: 327.560 - 88.745 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 41.542 (Reduction: 327.560 - 88.745 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.920!

Damage: 92.282 Target X-Ray HitZone 0 - Part 1
Damage: 24.760 (Reduction: 67.521 - 73.169 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 18.755 (Reduction: 73.527 - 79.677 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 14.140 (Reduction: 78.142 - 84.677 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 14.140 (Reduction: 78.142 - 84.677 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.920!

So you can see the ROLH-er is doing 55 dmg per shot .....this is easy outhealed with PPU self-heal doing 70 a tick.....

However......

10 shots later.....

Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 443.627 Target Energy HitZone 1 - Part 0
Damage: 159.340 (Reduction: 284.287 - 64.082 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 86.697 (Reduction: 356.930 - 80.457 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 65.659 (Reduction: 377.968 - 85.200 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 65.659 (Reduction: 377.968 - 85.200 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.920!

Damage: 110.914 Target X-Ray HitZone 1 - Part 1
Damage: 39.838 (Reduction: 71.076 - 64.083 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 29.781 (Reduction: 81.133 - 73.149 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 22.453 (Reduction: 88.461 - 79.756 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 22.453 (Reduction: 88.461 - 79.756 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.920!


So now , after 10 shots of ROLH , my shields are down to 64% , now I'm taking 87 dmg per shot , can no longer outheal fully at 70 per tick ...and HP is going down . This is when you think "Why cant I re-cast my shields to re-strengthen them"

And 10 shots later...........


Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 372.830 Target Energy HitZone 2 - Part 0
Damage: 165.947 (Reduction: 206.883 - 55.490 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 91.190 (Reduction: 281.641 - 75.541 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 69.061 (Reduction: 303.769 - 81.477 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 69.061 (Reduction: 303.769 - 81.477 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.920!

Damage: 93.214 Target X-Ray HitZone 2 - Part 1
Damage: 41.489 (Reduction: 51.724 - 55.490 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 31.178 (Reduction: 62.035 - 66.552 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 23.506 (Reduction: 69.707 - 74.782 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 23.506 (Reduction: 69.707 - 74.782 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.920!


Now I'm taking 93 dmg per shot , heath is going down very fast....becoming very hard to survive at this stage , a lot of dodging needed to dodge at least half the shots to stay alive.

and 10 shots later....


Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 442.846 Target Energy HitZone 1 - Part 0
Damage: 241.240 (Reduction: 201.606 - 45.525 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 131.259 (Reduction: 311.587 - 70.360 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 99.407 (Reduction: 343.439 - 77.553 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 99.407 (Reduction: 343.439 - 77.553 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.920!

Damage: 110.719 Target X-Ray HitZone 1 - Part 1
Damage: 60.314 (Reduction: 50.405 - 45.525 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 45.088 (Reduction: 65.630 - 59.277 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 33.994 (Reduction: 76.725 - 69.297 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 33.994 (Reduction: 76.725 - 69.297 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.920!


We are now taking 130 dmg per shot , losing HP at almost twice the rate we heal back....

So PPU godmode vs a single enemy has a time limit now.....40 shots approx vs ROLH :p

.......

One thing to note.....this effect is stronger with weapons that focus on a single Shield , ie: xray ROLH doing energy+xray, means all the dmg is hitting against the Absorber so it's losing strength faster.

Versus a ROLH doing energy+fire , your shields will last longer because 30% of the dmg is hitting the Protector and 70% hitting the Absorber.

[Lifewaster]

"Why cant I re-cast my shields to re-strengthen them"


Actually I just tested this, and you actually can re-cast absorber on yourself when this is happening and the shield strength goes back up to full again....(allthough the duration timer from the old version doesnt change I believe.)

[Dribble Joy]

One thing to note.....this effect is stronger with weapons that focus on a single Shield , ie: xray ROLH doing energy+xray, means all the dmg is hitting against the Absorber so it's losing strength faster.
Absorber is xray/poison. Shelter is energy/fire.

[Pantho]

Also :angel:

I am the worlds worst MC tank, and i was the tank with cmaster,

im sure we can scrounge up another MC tank tho...

[Lifewaster]

Update:

Regarding re-casting/re-fresh of deflector/protector/absorber...

It appears the ability to do this is reliant on your PPU skill lvl vs the TL of the spell.

For example:

With 132 PPU (PA off) I can re-fresh both the rare protector and rare deflector (re-sets both the shield strength and duration !) .......but I cannot re-fresh the rare absorber. I can however re-fresh the non rare holy absorber (lower tl)

With 155 PPU (PA on) I can refresh all 3 rare versions.......