View Full Version : Diminishing Bonuses
I have a sincere hatred for the diminishing bonuses from implants armors etc. relative to their condition. I don't want to ahve to get everything repaired whenever I feel compelled to op war, or between what i consider important fights.
Diminishing armor values on armor is acceptable... but armor should be made very cheap from sellers. But in the case of PAs and such, diminishing skills and subskills should never happen.
Agreed, we rely too much on these to be "constant values" when making our setups.
Yeah, as I just mentioned in the other thread a moment ago about the duration of Stealth, I definitely feel the same way here. Why was there a need for this to be changed? Fatal Runtime Errors and getting stuck in sync is annoying enough as it is when it happens (and for many it's very often), without forcing us to repair half our items every 2 seconds to make sure we have a usable character for PvP/PvM.
Some things really don't need changing, and this is one of them. Even now on the retail servers we have to repair things very often which ends up taking at least 15-30 minutes of my time, or at least it would have if I had my own repairer which I don't anymore, so it'll probably end up taking considerably longer as finding a trustworthy repairer is now a neccessity.
It's taken a year for my Spies TL30 poke tool to reach */64% condition. :cool: About time I gave it a name I think. o_O
+1 It's change for the sake of change and does nothing but cause severe irritation. People play this game for enjoyment, dueling, op warring etc not to run round looking for tradeskillers constantly. When imps/armour breaks they need fixing, exactly like the game. Fix the stuff that's broken, don't add stuff that serves no purpose but to annoy the hell out of everyone!
Someone needs an arse kicking for that idea
Nothing new to add here, but agreed - I think it's gotta go too :angel:
Agreed, its a rediculous turn off for an otherwise sexy game.
Imp bonuses degrading = ugh. :(
Armor values.. at least base it on max condition.
Gulinborsti
16-12-06, 15:56
I agree with this too. I like the idea of degrading boni on well used armor and weapons, but I don't want this "feature" for implants to make it into the retail.
Dribble Joy
16-12-06, 16:08
If it's going to stay, make it /condition, not condition/.
It needs to be removed from implants. Too many setups will require the maximum bonus from implants and as soon as those would drop people couldnt use guns or anything anymore.
I love it for armor though. But it needs some changes.
Armor with a condition of 100+ should simply give the full bonus and as soon as it gets below 100 the protection bonus is affected. Also the overall condition should affect it and not the actual condition.
That way there still was a market for player build armor but people wouldnt need to get armor repped after every fight to maintan maximum protection.
Example: 100 fire armor
xxx/120 down to xxx/100 gives full protection (100 armor)
xxx/90 would drop the armor to 90% protection giving 90 armor only and so on.
One thing that just comes to my mind:
How about decreasing overall stats also affecting requirements? That way i could pass my old armor to some noob who could keep using it.
I.e. inqui 4 needs 100 str to put on, when the condition is down to xxx/90 it would only need 90 str to put on. Same as with the protection.
That way armor wouldnt become useless once it goes below xxx/100.
Going further with this idea, KK could implement it for guns aswell. Might be funny seeing a newbie tank using a worn out CS. :lol:
Any suggestions? I like my idea. :)
Dribble Joy
16-12-06, 16:34
One thing that just comes to my mind:
How about decreasing overall stats also affecting requirements? That way i could pass my old armor to some noob who could keep using it.
I had the same idea a while ago, but I didn't suggest it as it has the possibility to be abused horribly.
People would purposely damage items to lower the reqs to use items they couldn't normally.
Any suggestions? I like my idea. :)Love it. Although (see below)I had the same idea a while ago, but I didn't suggest it as it has the possibility to be abused horribly.
People would purposely damage items to lower the reqs to use items they couldn't normally.What good would that do? If the damage is based on TL all you would get would be a Slasher that has the reqs and damage of a Judge, assuming it was balanced properly.
One thing you might see though is spies and monks in worn out duranium or inqui armor. Unbalancing? Maybe, if the new armors aren't adequate or are designed to have holes. If not, all is good. :)
Nothing to add to this topic.. I couldn't agree more. Like DJ said, if it's going to stay, make it /condition. :o
Dribble Joy
16-12-06, 18:38
What good would that do? If the damage is based on TL all you would get would be a Slasher that has the reqs and damage of a Judge, assuming it was balanced properly.
One thing you might see though is spies and monks in worn out duranium or inqui armor. Unbalancing? Maybe, if the new armors aren't adequate or are designed to have holes. If not, all is good. :)
I'm thinking about spells, armour and imps, even if the stats are lower, you may still end up with people using items they 'should not'.
I fail to see the purpose of it, i thought balancing was made so that we could have fair fights. I'd rather have my opponent at full strength than have a shitty fight
One of the things I've always liked about Neocron is that if I log on and hear there's an op fight or levelling session about to happen, other than perhaps "Where did I leave my character?" I don't have to bother sorting anything out. I can just up and roll.
Additionally, I've always thought the rate of item deterioration was a good one - you do need to repair stuff every so often, but it's slow enough so you're not doing it every time you log on. The current retail system also means you're not constantly spending money on repairs and replacements.
But this new system is just plain absurd. If it was based on /condition, it might be just about tolerable, altho still extremely annoying. But with the system based on condition/, I'm going to have to keep 5 sets of everything so that as soon as something gets too damaged I can replace it.
This is going to be time consuming, money consuming (more time consuming) and worse still I believe it will kill a lot of the repair and second hand market because people won't want to use anything that's below 120/120.
Please, please, if you, KK, still have an ounce of sense left in you take it back out.
If only there was at least one pvper on the KK dev team. They either don't play, or are all tradeskillers. It's quite bad when the playerbase knows the game better than the devs :\
Dribble Joy
16-12-06, 21:51
What would be usefull is if this gives a potential for pure/heavy-speccing rep chars, currently you don't need much more than the tl of the item being repped. Be nice if higher rep values gave better repairing.
Forget My Name
18-12-06, 20:47
KK wants to create more time sinks into the game. More time sinks there are, ala other MMOs, the longer people pay.
The less time sinks, the quicker people get bored and go to other MMOs.
At least this is what I assume goes through the think tanks heads at 10tacle.
The engine and "game experience" of Neocron does HORRID with time sinks.
Leveling is a bore and so are the missions. Any kind of time sink in Neocron can be and IS done better and more fun in other MMOs than this one.
Adding degradation to items as is proposed will do nothing but to try the limited patience of the small player base already in game.
Who want to poke in a 5 new implant and buy/wear 7 pieces of armor after each death? Before OP fights? Before and After any kind of PvP?
Doc Holliday
19-12-06, 08:28
just make it so that it degrades over time with armour and the protection degrades but not the requirements. if thats what people suggested the reqs to use it degrading is a SHIT IDEA because its exploitable as mentioned.
It would mean second hand armour can be used still but would be more about keeping a spare set handy. repairers would still skill it to be a benefit and it would ultimately mean people would need more sets often so it generates business for the customer.
Just like in real life you keep your best suit to go out dancing and picking up guys/chicks :) (pvp) and you keep your shitty old jumper you bought 15 years ago and somehow still fits you for chilling around on the sofa or doing gardening etc (pvm)
I think it is a wonderfull idea and it makes the whole thing a lot more roleplay and lifelike.
It also makes us tradeskillers more important and we make more money now.
I love it !!!!!
I think it is a wonderfull idea and it makes the whole thing a lot more roleplay and lifelike.
It also makes us tradeskillers more important and we make more money now.
I love it !!!!!
I have a tradeskiller and i do NOT need this to make money. With respect to all the other things coming on with Evo 2.2 it only will lead to lot of support bitches.
And it will cause is strong increase of the number of items to WIPE ! :(
If anybody wants to make a good contribution to improve the economics in NC it would be a better idea to wipe the money exploits.......
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I agree, we need another complete itemwipe before 2.2 is released.
Everyone should have the chance to start over again with the new system.
This includes WOC and xp wipes.
Yeah, item degredation as it is is frankly ridiclous. Its not like KK haven't but enough other timesinks in with 2.2 anyhow.
ninjagirl.. you are joking right..?
Doc Holliday
19-12-06, 12:53
I agree, we need another complete itemwipe before 2.2 is released.
Everyone should have the chance to start over again with the new system.
This includes WOC and xp wipes.
your contradicting yourself here ninj. you said its a good idea for the degrading then agreeing with what dr reed posted. or do i missunderstand and you only agree with the wipe idea. which is a bad idea. really bad.
I think with 2.2 we need a complete itemwhipe. It's a new game and everyone should get the chance to start equal.
I think with 2.2 we need a complete itemwhipe. It's a new game and everyone should get the chance to start equal.
No way. NC1 to NC2 was bad enough. I can cope with the odd item wipe, but not a total wipe.
IMHO everyone will be starting equal, a lot of people need to re-do their setups.
I'm with the post starter, diminishing armor values on armor is acceptable, but not on implants.
I think with 2.2 we need a complete itemwhipe. It's a new game and everyone should get the chance to start equal.
This would drive too many people away.
There's gonna be enough new stuff to keep the old players busy and even more for the new people.
And even with an itemwipe, it wouldnt last long. The "vets" know how and where to get stuff fast and easy. It's just not worth the itemwipe.
Maybe a small one though, clean the DB of all the crap people got and maybe wipe most of the money. But i dunno.
Heavy_Load
19-12-06, 14:11
sounds rubbish tbh
Well its gone now so who cares
The implant quality system is not gone, it's disabled.
I Thrity-Fifth that..... needs to get the boot. Imp degradation is a bad idea for the reasons already posted
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