View Full Version : As requested: Implant scaling based on item quality
This topic was certainly one of the most controversial on the test server (the feature is currently disabled) – here are a few modified concepts that we’d like to discuss with you. The reason behind this feature is the fact that there are Runners in Neocron that have been using the same implant for years, as the low quality does not have any effect.
Alternative 1:
The implants stay as they currently are (both on retail and test server). Quality has no effect whatsoever on the bonuses or penalties.
Alternative 2:
Implants lose bonuses depending on their quality. Quality is divided into four areas:
- Artifact (Quality 90 – 120 Percent): Bonuses are scaled with a factor of 1.2.
- Good (Quality 60 – 90 Percent): Bonuses are not scaled (Factor 1.0)
- Bad (Quality 30 – 60 Percent): Bonuses are slightly reduced (Factor 0.9)
- Shabby (Quality 0 – 30 Percent): Bonuses are reduced (Factor 0.75)
This alternative was already active on the test server – the partially different effects will of course be fixed.
Alternative 3:
This alternative is a derivative of alternative 2 – main skill bonuses will be excluded from the scaling effect, as they are often required to meet use restrictions and we don’t want your weapon to "drop out of your hands" during a fight.
Alternative 4:
We like this version the best: The bonuses are lowered with falling quality (as described in alternative 2) – main skill bonuses are excluded. The main element of this alternative is the handling of the implant’s penalties: the worse an implant’s quality, the higher the skill penalties. A proposition:
- Artifact (Quality 90 – 120 Percent): Penalties are lowered by a factor of 0.5
- Good (Quality 60 – 90 Percent): Penalties are only slightly reduced (Factor 0.75)
- Bad (Quality 30 – 60 Percent): Penalties have full effect (Factor 1.0)
- Shabby (Quality 0 – 30 Percent): Penalties are increased (Factor 1.25)
First off, we’d like to see some discussions where you try to convince us of the alternative you prefer – if necessary we will run a poll to get a result.
Hell-demon
20-12-06, 17:57
Alternative 1!
ALL THE WAY!
Number 1.
Leave things be, prices for some items are high enough already. An artifact MC5 chip would likely have an astronomical price under the other alternatives.
Forget My Name
20-12-06, 18:13
I know you guys want to add money and time sinks into this game (like traditional MMOs), but do it with care.
I would like option 1.
But if you are going to go against the grain and make this game more tedious than it already is, go with both option 2 and 3.
This encourages players to make higher quality implants through tradeskilling.
Also, the "quality" of an item should be the RIGHT number(/XX), not the LEFT number(xx/).
Alternative 1...
please.. alternative 1... need.. alternative 1..
tbh there is no way people wont be using full-effect implants/armour and i do kinda see what you've done this, but i don't think it shoulda been anywhere near your priority list but still..
option 4 sounds alright if it gives us lower penelties than we have currently, but whatever you pick, it must be the max condition that counts, not the current condition.. especially with armour
Alternative 4 please, assuming main skill bonuses are always the same. Also as requested, the effects should be based on the second quality stat (max condition) rather than the first (current condition).
Dribble Joy
20-12-06, 18:54
One. But if not, 4 assuming that it's the main /condtion, not the condition/ value.
Number one or Eins
Been learning my german so i can get it thru to KK what they been doing wrong :angel:
Mighty Max
20-12-06, 19:05
Alternative 4.
Maybe with the addition on what quality determinates the efficiency
Determinating Quality = (max. condition + cur. condition * 2) / 3
:edit: meaning a weighted influence of 2:1 for cur:max condition
Absolutely No. 1 - if any kind of skill increase or decrease is involved, not many people will like repping all their stuff all the time. But as soon as a few people do it, more will have to do it (even the ones who don't want to) just to keep up. Introducing bonus points for implants won't help offset this either, imo. It's just a new high that everyone will have to reach for to PvP, and will quickly become the norm. More busy-work time-sinks, less fun.
Also, I feel that any imp condition penalty system (even negating the existing penalties, negating a penalty is practically the same as giving more of a bonus) will hit hardest the people who die often, or new players, as their imps will get knackered more quickly. Which will make them die more... Whilst the people who are dying less frequently will be able to keep their implants in top shape as they never pop. People with, say, a DS in their head that is close to a condition threshold won't ever GR, they'll pay someone to come ress them. More busy-work, more down-time.
Any bonus system will make life easier for people who are already better, and worse for people who are a bit... well shitter. This will make it easier for the tough runners, more difficult for new or plain untalented runners (like me!)
I don't think that's right, really... O_o
Alternative 1 for me also. Why does it matter that people have been using the same implant for years?
If this general bonus loss idea is to boost tradeskilling, I doubt it will work. Forcing people to log on a tradeskiller and rebuild/repair everything twice as often will just make people bother even less about doing jobs for anyone else, because they'll be too busy building/repairing their own/their friends items all day long.
Alternative 1. Except if the bonus is dependent on the /xxx value and imps only loose condition when they drop on death.
Vital question - what do you mean by quality on an item? Is it the 1st set of numbers (Current quality) or the last set of numbers? (Maximum quality)
However alternative 4 looks very interesting - what are the chances of being able to try this option, and decide once we given it a go?
Apocalypsox
20-12-06, 20:05
i vote for number 3. No main skill scaling, but the other skills will slowly lose their bonuses.
It only makes sense you bunch of one minded people! If a fucking machine takes a hit and gets damaged a bit, Its not gonna run perfectly.
100% Agree with Apocalypsox - I vote for Number 3. It seems the most fair to me. Only one stipulation, the decline in quality is only applied to the BASE quality, not the CURRENT quality. Meaning, if an imp is 5/120, it still is perfect. I wouldn't lose stats until */89. This way it won't hugely alter gameplay, but will have a long-term effect.
At the same time, this opens up a whole new economic market for "after-market" implants. The not-so-rich or new-to-the game could aspire to buy the (made up figures) 3 mil 80/80 MC5 implant instead of the 6 mil 120/120 MC5 implant.
Everyone wants Option 1 because they're just used to it. I'm all for more dynamics. Option two seems too drastic and would really overcomplicate things. Option 4 just grinds me the wrong way since there already seems to be an overdose of malus stats on implants *cough* athletics & agility *cough*
John Doe, when this thread seems exhausted, I'd post a poll :)
I like alternative 3 alot.
Good reason for players to make imps. Just as it is for armour (finally :))
Need clarification on which condition value will be used in the calculations tho.
Could it be possible to make the hard to get implants/armours like for example mc5 or WOC pa's exempt from this?
That might go some way to appeasing the people praying for alternative 1 while still creating a market for as brammers put it "after market implants".
100% Agree with Apocalypsox - I vote for Number 3. It seems the most fair to me. Only one stipulation, the decline in quality is only applied to the BASE quality, not the CURRENT quality. Meaning, if an imp is 5/120, it still is perfect. I wouldn't lose stats until */89. This way it won't hugely alter gameplay, but will have a long-term effect.
At the same time, this opens up a whole new economic market for "after-market" implants. The not-so-rich or new-to-the game could aspire to buy the (made up figures) 3 mil 80/80 MC5 implant instead of the 6 mil 120/120 MC5 implant.
Everyone wants Option 1 because they're just used to it. I'm all for more dynamics. Option two seems too drastic and would really overcomplicate things. Option 4 just grinds me the wrong way since there already seems to be an overdose of malus stats on implants *cough* athletics & agility *cough*
John Doe, when this thread seems exhausted, I'd post a poll :)Thats how i'd love it to be implemented. People could still pvp yet there was a new market for both newly built implants and used drop-only implants.
I'm sticking with Nr 1 there. It's pretty obvious why. ;)
Dribble Joy
21-12-06, 01:49
Option 3 still affects bonuses to subskills, it only doesn't apply to main skills. This will still 'force' people to use 90%+ imps.
Heavyporker
21-12-06, 02:24
Alternative #3 sounds pretty good, though #4 sounds tolerable.
Option 4, as long as the penalties will be things like
-apu, to ppu imps
-Pc to RC imps etc
Because if its - HP/Ath
then you may suddenly get a - ATH skill and stop moving-
or - END .... 0 stamina regen sucks ill tell ya that
Option 1.
Let's move on to other issues now?
Doc Holliday
21-12-06, 05:43
alternative one. once you have done the hard work for imps (see mc5 etc) you should be able to keep that reward without having to go again in the future unless you want to.
IF and i mean if alt 1 wasnt available i would plump for alt 3 for reasons stated by FN and brammers. it would be interesting to see a used imps market appear for people but honestly it would be a cold day in hell before i chose that over option 1.
i like option 4...but any more neg ath and i might start moving backwards...
if thats the case as it seems, then just leaving it alone (option 1) might just be the most viable solution (easiest too!)
Gulinborsti
21-12-06, 08:19
Option 3 sounds tolerable.
Option 4 might make the thing a little tricky as mentioned above.
For the smoothest transition and better control (smaller parameters to consider, for both players and you for balance), I would say option 1 is preferred, but:
me too, I like option 4, for being the second less powerful and fun option. After all, we are all using implants because their bonuses outperform there penalties. Therefore if you lower them even more or with time increase them, it will create a fun aspect in the game in which you will have to watch there values too.
So, if you want to be creative go with 4
Option 1!
With this same logic weapons & armor should also get worse with falling quality, why would those stay the same but implants wouldn’t? So now all ppl would do hunt even more parts & construct stuff and get even more frustrated since there would be no one left to pvp or opfights… OH JOY!
If it aint broken don’t try to fix it!
.hack//sign
21-12-06, 15:47
it needs to be one, many people I know base their setups on that one extra dex, or extra con . with the way I see it, all my setups I spent time coming up with have gone right out the window.
it needs to be one, many people I know base their setups on that one extra dex, or extra con . with the way I see it, all my setups I spent time coming up with have gone right out the window.
well, tbh, if its about time to end the reign of the "Uber" setup, then this is how we do it. For me, setups matter only in achieving the main skills like Dex levels for guns. Having -1 in agility wont make exactly the hell in difference
Alternative 1.
Although 3 sounds tempting, if the loss based on /condition rather than condition/.
Mighty Max
21-12-06, 16:24
all my setups I spent time coming up with have gone right out the window.
Setups will be gone anyways.
There is no way around that when the way skills work is changed. (I.e. removing the skill hickups at higher level, aka the "with higher skill less effect"-bug)
i have always wanted option 3
option 1 is just stupid. why even have a condition if they dont detiriorate
when your herk gets battered to hell and back you should sell it on the market for less than you payed for it and use that money to invest in a higher quality one meaning there is always a need for items in the economy.
option 3 is the best ONLY on the condition that items are only effected by there MAXIMUM quality not there current... then the more the item is used the lower its quality goes. and people will repair there armour and implants with reppers who have higher skills and less often
Option 1, there are better ways to make csted armor/imps worth it.
What I would do, is add slots to armor and imps and then let players mod items to customize the stats on it. So for armor you can, to a degree, choose to specialize in 1 resist or spread resists out. This is going to be even more useful with the new armor system.
For imps you can choose to mod them with small boni to things like agil, atl, resists, or subskills. This could also be used to offset the maluses on many imps, you can mod them to emphasize their functions or choose to negate their negatives.
Doc Holliday
22-12-06, 05:12
Not a bad idea onero. i can imagine trade channel going "WTB 5 Slot SA! Paying OUT THE ASS!!!!" already.
another option is to make the imps break easier but not lose bonuses. then it pushes the trader aspect as people will need more things repaired more often. just a thought.
Unless you're radically changing how we obtain implants, this will only have an impact on the rarepart-only imps. All other imps are trivial to obtain in a xx/120 condition state.
If the goal is to make MC5 even more of a timesink, by all means choose something between Alternative 2-4.
If the goal is to have a true impact on gameplay, then either you're about to make a change in how construction skill impacts condition or you're about to radically alter how imps are created/sourced. Neither option sits well with me.
Seeing as how I don't believe you're going to "fix" the outstanding NC1 bugs, I'd really rather you just drop this altogether and focus on fixing NC1's bugs, therefore I vote Alternative 1.
P.S. Unless you radically alter implant creation/sourcing or impose character creation restrictions, none of the alternatives will have an impact on any of my characters, save possibly my MC5-using Hybrid Monk. I build or FSM-buy all the imps I use now. Push comes to shove, I retire the Monk.
Another problem with implants taking damage and then loosing the bonus is people just logging out on death.
It already sucks when people just lay around for ages waiting for their beloved PPU to rezz them but the whole implant problem would make it worse.
So either ditch the whole thing or give is a timer, i.e. after 10 minutes a dead guy will automatically respawn in his apartment.
mhmm
make all store bought imps only have 30-90 quality depending on where you get thema nd how much u pay (make outzone be dirt cheap low quality and make proper shops medium quality where as tech haven would be high quality. but user built items would be 120 quality
lowering subskill bonuses wont have that much effect on players apart from monk hybrids. most people spec over what they need to fire there weapons anyway and things like armour only have base stat requierments. maby freeze weplore and willpower and mst because again these are requiermnets to fire a weapon that peope spec the minimum amount. but apart from that degrading seems nice
make mc5's and such degrade much slower than normal so people are not constantly complaining.. or keep the degrading rate the same but make everybody happy and make them pop less often
This idea does make sense to have in-game but more the important thing most of you mustn't be thinking about is the impact any option other than #1 will have on the remaining population after the balancing is done. And the key words in that sentence are impact and remaining population.
Without even thinking of adding this timesync such as constantly repairing your implants every 2minutes for the sake of a bit of realism, how many extra techs are going to be added to the rare pool? With the current mob settings it's going to take considerably longer to farm techs, and at the current rate, death is going to happen much more quickly - so lots more death and annoyance when half your implants screw over.
-1 agility at a time doesn't particularly hurt THAT much, but if it's going to affect resists, and a whole bunch of other skills at once too, then those points all add up Neocron has always been a game where every little makes a difference, and still is in most areas.
Even more so: Think of how these sort of changes affect the general/new player, and particularly their newbie low level characters during the levelling process. So far the most people have been doing on the test server is seemingly running around on capped characters with the best armour they can wear and all artifact items; and we think the mobs are stronger? I wonder how they'll think of it all being a newbie with degrading skills and nothing but a Jones heal and a bit of armour that's artifact?
Adding extra nonesense timesyncs to the game for the sake of realism isn't the way forward. People need to be encouraged to play the game for what it is, preferably shooting each other rather than running around thinking "oh no, my implants are going to be wrecked, I don't want to waste yet another hour sat in TechHaven repairing all my gear" and the whole array of other reasons.
awkward silence
22-12-06, 15:12
option 1 or...
maybe 3 if its 120/120<--- that matters and not -->120/120
also i think only after /60 imps should start degrading.
I dont want another big timesink. I want to PVP and PVE. Lately there hasnt been much PVP anywhere outside ops... please dont give me another reason to leave when i just got back.
Alt 5:
Implants repair up to 120/120 instead of degrading after repairs, but implants still degrade in bonus's excluding main skills. This means that a user who has an implant at 0/120 can rep it to 120/120.
Also GM's replace stolen items :D
However I don't see you implimenting that! HA So....how about LEAVE IT ALONE!? Alt 1. Why? Because I don't like the idea of replacing my implants! It will push up the market and place more pressure on MC5, which will just be a pain in the arse!
What I would do, is add slots to armor and imps and then let players mod items to customize the stats on it. So for armor you can, to a degree, choose to specialize in 1 resist or spread resists out. This is going to be even more useful with the new armor system.
I'd love that to a limited degree.
csted items having 1 slot; armour allowing you to add 10% of the normal resistance in one damage line, imps allowing you to add 5 (random number, not enough to make a major difference but enough to matter) to a sub skill.
Whatever you do don't let it effect mainskills.
Even though we still know very little of all the changes that will take effect in evolution 2.2, I still find it hard to see how this “Implant scaling based on item quality” needs to be implemented at this point and time?
Since no one really knows how the other changes (changes that pretty most have been expecting and craving for, for a long time) will work out, why not wait and see how the major and more critical issues have been solved and what side-effects come from those...
Option 1, there are better ways to make csted armor/imps worth it.
What I would do, is add slots to armor and imps and then let players mod items to customize the stats on it. So for armor you can, to a degree, choose to specialize in 1 resist or spread resists out. This is going to be even more useful with the new armor system.
For imps you can choose to mod them with small boni to things like agil, atl, resists, or subskills. This could also be used to offset the maluses on many imps, you can mod them to emphasize their functions or choose to negate their negatives.
Armour would have to have so many slots to make it useful so that would require either armour to have 5+ slots, or buying/building alot of armour!
Armour would have to have so many slots to make it useful so that would require either armour to have 5+ slots, or buying/building alot of armour!
Not really.
Armour exactly the same now, but with the option of adding a little to one damagetype.
I don't think he is asking for armour to have 0 resists until slotted.
Armour would have to have so many slots to make it useful so that would require either armour to have 5+ slots, or buying/building alot of armour!
Well you wouldnt make the armor stats depend on the slots only. I'd rather want armor slots to give slight extra resists up to a maximum of maybe 5 resist points per mod. So you could still compete without having to get the best equip possible.
Well you wouldnt make the armor stats depend on the slots only. I'd rather want armor slots to give slight extra resists up to a maximum of maybe 5 resist points per mod. So you could still compete without having to get the best equip possible.
yea, 0 slot armor would be 95% as effective as 5 slotted armor. But for instance, lets say you were worried about PSR, if you put a PSR mod on every peice of your armor you could get a good 30 bonus poison that way, so having 5 slotted armor wouldn't make or break you, but generaly you'd want at least a couple of slots on armor.
And obviously the effectivness of the mods can be tweaked, its more just the idea that I was suggesting.
GOD OF HELL
23-12-06, 14:43
I must say that Alternative 1 is the old way but...NO.
I am going with Alternative #2. I think that it really brings out more of the game that it is. A lot of people posting have ideas that don't take into more of the real elements that take place.
For instance, if you are wearing armor and it starts wearing down, would you be able to take more bullets? Of course, because your armor is beat up a bit more.
If not #2, #3 or #4 is just fine.
Is the option4 the one that affects the negative of the implant ?
If yes then i vote for that.
First its a good design.
Second, if anyone worries about not being able to move because you get a few more -ath or something we have to not consider whatever the person says. He has no clue at all.
Third, i think anything that affects the (+) positive/bonus aspect of implants is a big NO NO. Were not talking armor here, ppl defenetly base setups on the bonuses of imps. Think about TC, wich is directly linked to runspeed.(of course runners want to have as much as they can in agil)
Affecting mainskill bonuses is out of question.
Now the only downside i see to that is that its gonna create implant bugs, of the likes of the "i-see-my-imp-127/120 or the trade-me-to-see-if-broken"
As far as the whole project, i think the aim is to keep bugs to a minimum ?
Keep that in mind.
I must say that Alternative 1 is the old way but...NO.
I am going with Alternative #2. I think that it really brings out more of the game that it is. A lot of people posting have ideas that don't take into more of the real elements that take place.
For instance, if you are wearing armor and it starts wearing down, would you be able to take more bullets? Of course, because your armor is beat up a bit more.
If not #2, #3 or #4 is just fine.
If you want realism spec 0 in all resists so you die in a few shots.
I'd rather have a fun game.
Going off topic with all this armour garble...
There's already enough items that people whine about losing when they die, which results in them zone whoring, and be unneccessarily PPU buttplugged over (with DB+Paraspam) so they don't die. And now people are talking about introducing armour where slots decide how effective the resists are? All that will do is add another end-game requirement which people will cry over when they lose their 5 slot piece of armour.
If armour was given slots and in my preference the maximum amount of slots should be either 1 or 2, the only difference it should have over unslotted armour is the ability to use a condition modifier. These condition modifiers would take the armour condition above the standard 120/120, so the advantage is only that the armour will last longer than normal armour and require less time repairing it in the beginning.
As hinted above though, the problem with Neocron over the last couple of years is that people don't want to lose their precious items however low level/worthless they may be, which results in lame PvP such as zone whoring, clip whoring and using every E-word in the book in order to cheat death. Adding more precious items will make things worse in that respect.
Having said that, I wouldn't mind an optional set of unique 'blank' armour that has no resist types except possibly a bit of energy or something by default, and can get the full 5 slots to then be modded to your own preference. The other armours would remain with just the condition boosting mods. Being able to mod every piece of armour with extra resists just seems like an easy way to make your character more uber without sacrifice (unless of course the resist boosting mods give penalties in another area as well).
The blank armour could have quite a lot of modifiers (some possibly only usable on a particular armour type (ie. helmet, vest, etc) to help make particular setups that bit more reachable. For example, you could have less armour resists but more skill in say Vehicle Use or Agility. The Modifiers would range from giving bonuses to all the various levels (int, str, con, dex, psi) and then the various subskills, not forgetting resists.
As long as those modifiers are balanced together according to the other armour types and classes, it might add that bit of variation that was talked about but doesn't yet seem to be all that achievable.
@God Of Hell: You've seen that newbie in the other thread asking why Neocron is so empty, at the moment this whole idea should be flushed down the toilet as it'll add to making things much worse for the casual and even PvPing players. As you've mentioned (I think it was you at least), quite a few of those players have either stopping playing Neocron or been banned. I agree with mccaff.
Most people can't be bothered logging their tradeskiller (me included if I still had mine) for people they don't know (such as random newbies), there's no real profit in it anymore. We already spend too much of our own time with the various Neocron grinds to get cash or rares. That's one reason people come and go, the economy favours the rich, which leaves new people screwed these days. Good look to those casual players/newbies in finding people to research, then construct, and no doubt repair those items not long after because of the choices made here.
Might start a quick thread about the newbie situation at some point and hope it gets listened to for balancing.
I like the idea of Alternative 3, however I think the 'negatives' are still a bit harsh especially when some of us have taken literally years to obtain a single MC5 cpu.
So, instead of:
Alternative 3:
Implants lose bonuses depending on their quality. Quality is divided into four areas:
- Artifact (Quality 90 – 120 Percent): Bonuses are scaled with a factor of 1.2.
- Good (Quality 60 – 90 Percent): Bonuses are not scaled (Factor 1.0)
- Bad (Quality 30 – 60 Percent): Bonuses are slightly reduced (Factor 0.9)
- Shabby (Quality 0 – 30 Percent): Bonuses are reduced (Factor 0.75)
I think there should be no quality deprivation between Artifact and Good, only once it reaches the 'bad' status then have reductions in place. Also I think 'shabby' quality should be a factor of 0.8 rather than 0.75.
Going off topic with all this armour garble...
There's already enough items that people whine about losing when they die, which results in them zone whoring, and be unneccessarily PPU buttplugged over (with DB+Paraspam) so they don't die. And now people are talking about introducing armour where slots decide how effective the resists are? All that will do is add another end-game requirement which people will cry over when they lose their 5 slot piece of armour.
If armour was given slots and in my preference the maximum amount of slots should be either 1 or 2, the only difference it should have over unslotted armour is the ability to use a condition modifier. These condition modifiers would take the armour condition above the standard 120/120, so the advantage is only that the armour will last longer than normal armour and require less time repairing it in the beginning.
As hinted above though, the problem with Neocron over the last couple of years is that people don't want to lose their precious items however low level/worthless they may be, which results in lame PvP such as zone whoring, clip whoring and using every E-word in the book in order to cheat death. Adding more precious items will make things worse in that respect.
Having said that, I wouldn't mind an optional set of unique 'blank' armour that has no resist types except possibly a bit of energy or something by default, and can get the full 5 slots to then be modded to your own preference. The other armours would remain with just the condition boosting mods. Being able to mod every piece of armour with extra resists just seems like an easy way to make your character more uber without sacrifice (unless of course the resist boosting mods give penalties in another area as well).
The blank armour could have quite a lot of modifiers (some possibly only usable on a particular armour type (ie. helmet, vest, etc) to help make particular setups that bit more reachable. For example, you could have less armour resists but more skill in say Vehicle Use or Agility. The Modifiers would range from giving bonuses to all the various levels (int, str, con, dex, psi) and then the various subskills, not forgetting resists.
As long as those modifiers are balanced together according to the other armour types and classes, it might add that bit of variation that was talked about but doesn't yet seem to be all that achievable.
@God Of Hell: You've seen that newbie in the other thread asking why Neocron is so empty, at the moment this whole idea should be flushed down the toilet as it'll add to making things much worse for the casual and even PvPing players. As you've mentioned (I think it was you at least), quite a few of those players have either stopping playing Neocron or been banned. I agree with mccaff.
Most people can't be bothered logging their tradeskiller (me included if I still had mine) for people they don't know (such as random newbies), there's no real profit in it anymore. We already spend too much of our own time with the various Neocron grinds to get cash or rares. That's one reason people come and go, the economy favours the rich, which leaves new people screwed these days. Good look to those casual players/newbies in finding people to research, then construct, and no doubt repair those items not long after because of the choices made here.
Might start a quick thread about the newbie situation at some point and hope it gets listened to for balancing.
I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think that armor slots would neccisarily become a huge end game hastle.
1) No armor is rare, that means you can use slotties on armor
2) The boni will be small enouph, that although having no slotted armor and having 5 slotted will be a big jump, the guy who builds 3 slotted armor and the guy who has all 5 will not have a large difference between them.
Option 1.
But since the majority say option one, and a few have said option 3, kk is going to choose 3. And in this case, make sure its based off of MAXIMUM CONDITION not minimum.
and just to make it stated again... (in regards to removing hard caps on weapons)
REMOVE BUILD CAPS OFF NON RARE WEAPONS/SPELLS.
Option 1 to avoid more unnecessary time sinks, but if this is not an option (!), then I would vouch for option four.
option 1 for sure. Implant penalties are rediculess. You work hard for these good chips and now we are gona need multiples of each. no way.
Alternative 1.
Although 3 sounds tempting, if the loss based on /condition rather than condition/.
Agreed.
option 1 all the way.
i can see the reason for doing the other options but the problem with takin away or giving imp/armor bonuses based on condition makes the game less based on skill and more based on items. nc has always been based on skill and not on items.
i mean ok u need to spend some time gettin decent slotted stuff and sure it helps to have all 5 slotted shit but a guy with 2 slotted weapons can do just as good as somebody with 4 slotted weapons.
if u wanna do some kinda bonus loss for imp/armor condition then make it so u can repair to 120/120. nc wont be more cyberpunk/hardcore if u away bonuses when condition gets low, because u will have a few ppl with more bonus advantage so it will just make nc less based on skill.
i see that u r tryin to keep the current content alive with this idea; i.e. go back to mc5 if ur imps get shitty etc but it gets old and annoying after a few dozen times. ppl dont wanna relive the same shit over & over they want new stuff.
ashley watts
05-01-07, 01:21
Number 1 please.
option one, they die pretty often, so noone uses implants forever
I prefer option 2 tbh.....
If you can make imps repairable with no setbacks to the imp once its been repaired, I'd say almost any option would work. Otherwise, option 1. I do agree that the amount of penalty should be reduced if any of options 2-4 are used. Keep in mind the server pop, as it is now a pain in the rear to find an implanter, much less needing to find an implanter, researcher, constructor, and repairer... gee, anyone feel like playing for 5 days just to get your imps in and then die again?
As for armor slots... interesting, but that would work best if armor had a set # of slots (higher TL armor gives higher slots, with a max of 5 slots) was given a base % for one or more resists (higher TL armor gives higher base resists or more/different types per class,) and then slots would give additional % resists, so people could customize their armor a bit more (one has a poison belt that gives a small fire resist, and another has a poison belt that gives a small ener resist, and another has a poison belt that gives a small extra poison resist, etc.)
The bonus per slot should be very low, only another 1-2% per slot so as to not be overpowering, but still useful for those going all out. People would have mutliple sets of pet armor.
A side possibility to that is to make armor slots able to be taken out or simply replaced over. This would repair the armor slightly, too, without lowering the armor's condition (minimally, about 1-2%, so as to not make repairers useless.) Also, armor would have to be easy to build, find parts for, research, and repair, otherwise it gets crazy to even try using anything but basic armor for those of us who don't play 16 hours a day :D
Remeber, the secret to having a successful MMORPG is in the players' fun level. Do what most MMORPGs fail miserably at: keep things difficult enough that there's some point in playing and some reward for doing well, but don't make it such a levelling grind/item hunting grind that playing becomes tedious and boring. NC's got the content, setting, and system of a great MMORPG, but it may slip into those faults if things are overdone and the system gets so complex and convoluted that it takes a mathematician to figure out how to use an imp or gun. (BTW, I believe caps for items/guns/damage/etc. should be posted by KK, not some hidden facts that players have to guess at and refigure every time theres a patch.)
Archtemplar
02-03-07, 03:23
number 1, it makes for less bs and more gaming.
Number one, but if you really INSIST on choosing between 2-4, i'd say 4
Thge community response has been a strong majority in favour of...Alternative 1:
The implants stay as they currently are (both on retail and test server). Quality has no effect whatsoever on the bonuses or penalties.
What's the spin going to be?
number 1, it makes for less bs and more gaming.
Jesus fucking christ your sig makes me want my Camo PA Judge PE back...
Oh lord...
The reason people are picking option 1 is because we dont want a pointless waste of life in the game.
Similar to making mobs take a ton longer to kill.
And making everything more expensive.
And slowing down pvp.
I can't see anywhere in the initial proposal something about changing HOW items loose their condition. Yet it has been changed to degrade now when you take damage instead of the normal way according to recent posts.
Can someone confirm this please, as I really don't want to find out the hard way. 8|
From what I heard, indeed head implants are losing condition as you are getting hit!!! No matter if you use super duper hitech armor or have physical resists, damage somehow manages to avoid all those barriers and be absorbed by those implants :p
So, what's the alternative you kept ?
Not sure who you're talking to calim, or what you mean even.
Anyway, it's been moved to the bug forum so lets hope and pray it is fixed asap, before a lot of people get sick and leave for good.
1 tbh cause you fucked up on items because on test server imps didnt get damaged when test server was on.... now on retail they damage when you get shot and FALL!!!!! out when your pking/levleing sort it fucking out even le's pop out.
Dribble Joy
22-03-07, 04:58
Jesus fucking christ your sig makes me want my Camo PA Judge PE back...
Oh lord...
Bah, I'm the original Judge Camo PE.
Alternative 4 is nice.. i don't see why people are thinking you'll have to rep all the time.. it just means that if you are using the same implants till they're like 55/55 then you're going to have issues :P except for mc5 of course cause they don't have penalties.. well most don't.
Imps that lose bonii/gain malii as their condition drops is just a horrible idea that would wreak havoc with people setups and such. It's already annoying enough when an imp wrecks within your head stopping you from using one of your items...
[F6]Knight
05-04-07, 11:49
indeed. its annoying enough already
on top of that most casual players that spend a while getting money for an mc5 chip dont wanna replace it every few weeks/months (depending on how much they die ^^) when the max condition goes below a certain number and suddenly the bonusses arent as good as before.
I did like option 4, but with the current issue with implants loosing condition bug/feature, option 1 is now the best. It's already a big enough factor for players to be seeking reps for their implants, or falling out during a fight.
I want to be doing PvP and PvE, not constantly seeking reps and pokes for implants all the time. Or having to seek replacement implants.
ResurgencE
25-04-07, 00:44
Option 1.
Asurmen Spec Op
25-04-07, 03:20
I like 4 better....
DX-Defender
11-07-07, 13:03
alternative 4..
but my opinion on that is based on the assumption that the quality dictating the bonus/penalty is the Max Condition.
if its to be based on the Current Condition then id vote to leave implants as they are.
The reason people are picking option 1 is because we dont want a pointless waste of life in the game.
Similar to making mobs take a ton longer to kill.
And making everything more expensive.
And slowing down pvp.
im really thinking about money or trade value.. the reduction of any one 2~4 will reduce the value considerably and I assume making the higher version more expensive. Best thing I kan think of is to trade it off b4 it depletes to much.
Only other side effect I kan think of is that people with high(er) income will find it a lil easier to get the better products but of kourse its been like that, but I wonder if this will make the gap even bigger? I suppose Guild support would factor in but I'm thinking it'd be a lil bit more 'selfish' in the long run... I do think its a good idea, it'll let implants "die" out over time quicker which means more interaction but mostly, u'll have to keep replacing them allot sooner
Option 1!
You're going to drive players away with that kind of tweaking.
Do you guys even try to roll characters and test them solo before you implement these ideas? Have you ever tried to cap one of those characters?
The game has to be a challenge to players but it also has to be fun. If you implement anything other than option 1, every player has to bear the burden of constantly repairing and/or reconstructing their basic implants. That is a waste of precious play time.
It's way more fun to spend that time with your clan members out on a hunt or op warring, or pissing people off in pepper park 1! :angel:
Omg let this topic die allready? :rolleyes:
Option 1, end of story! :angel:
Hell-demon
23-07-07, 13:03
Option 1 you horrid devs
Option 1 for me cause I'm a broke hoe!
ashley watts
23-07-07, 18:16
option 1 ;-)
Theres already enough things to go wrong/have gone wrong, this could just cause more isssues with stability of the game, so in a phrase " U GOTTA BE MAD ".
Option 1 All the way :angel:
in my opinion there are far more important things than implant scaling:
adjust some mobs power : agressors overpowered, small spidebot overpowered, warbots slightly overpowered
adjusting this will prevent that only regant legacy is a descent place to xp
Hehe think the only person that still belive that this gonna happen is DJ :rolleyes:
Dead Bodies
04-11-07, 23:28
# 1 !!!!!
This is still a crap idea.
Option # 1 please. Leave the imps the way these are. No point in making people's lives misérable.
Dead Bodies
24-11-07, 17:52
KK.. touch em and i hunt you down with your own CBR! Yes its true ill transform that milky ren back to an uber 9999kilo wepon and send your imps to the next world... :angel:
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