Set Up Thread.

[Zheo]

Post you new set ups for people to look at and try out and discuss.

Though this might be a useful thread.

[Lifewaster]

Well, regarding resist setups. I have some tips :

(1) Understand how to utilise your dmg logs.And your class resist caps.This is key to any test setup atm.

Your dmg log is in your test directory /logs/charname_00 , older logs are named _01 , _02 etc.
Also whenever you relog, it resets the file.

Your goal should be to get as close as you can to your resist cap particularly vs energy and pierce , since these comprise 75% of the dmg from all the high end weapons.

A realistic setup will aim to hit the caps with foreign support. ie: heat 3 + s/d

You dont need high dmg to test , since its all % based , you can have a friend hit you with a tl 10 laser, then examine your logs to see what % total resist vs energy you made etc.

Here is a breakdown of a PPU resist log.

##########
Vs fire:

Damage: 109.675 Target Fire HitZone 2 - Part 0
Damage: 28.141 (Reduction: 81.534 - 74.341 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 28.141 (Reduction: 81.534 - 74.341 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 24.631 (Reduction: 85.044 - 77.542 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 24.631 (Reduction: 85.044 - 77.542 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.920!

109 dmg initially, shield gave 74%, reducing to 28 dmg after shields, no fire armor on so armor gave 0% , thus still 28 dmg after armor , then con skill reduced the 28 to 24 final dmg....with a total final resist % of 77%.....class resist cap of 92% wasnt breached.

As you see the resist % is given as a total effect after each section, thus my con didnt give 77% , it gave about 14% (28dmg -> 24dmg) , but my overall resist raised from 74% initially from shield to 77% as a result of my con.

#########
Heals:

Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: -24.850 Target Fulldamage HitZone 3 - Part 0
Results of this target: Damage -24.850 (Reduction: 0.000 - 0.000 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.920!

Negative dmg in the log is from your heals ticking, so you can see exactly how much you are getting ie: 24 in this case.

##############
Vs Energy(HL):

Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 413.078 Target Energy HitZone 1 - Part 0
Damage: 318.019 (Reduction: 95.060 - 23.012 Percentage) - Damage caused by PSI
Damage: 79.781 (Reduction: 333.297 - 80.686 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 44.630 (Reduction: 368.448 - 89.196 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 28.666 (Reduction: 384.412 - 93.060 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Class resistance cap reached: 0.920
Results of this target: Damage 33.046 (Reduction: 380.032 - 92.000 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.920!

Here a HL did 413 initially, Resist PSI skill then reduced it by 23% to 318 dmg , Shields then reduced it to 79 dmg (approc 76% reduction from shields) bringing the total resist thus far to 80%, armor then reduced the 79 to 44 (approc 45% reduction from armor) bringing the total resist to 89% , Con then reduced the 44 to 26 (approx 40% reduction from con) bringing the total resist to 93%.

The resist cap if 92% was breached, so the final resist was capped at 92% giving 33 dmg.

#########

Resist caps for class are 92% PPU , 88% tank, 80% PE/Spy , 75% apu/hybrid

Thus your goals should be to reach these on your class, considering you can have an extra 25 con resist from heat/hazard 3 , and about 20% from foreign shields. A general guideline I think would be to aim for about 70%-75% total resist unbuffed, in order to hit the 75%/88% for tanks/APus with foreign buffs.Thus an APU would need about 90 resist energy in con, as well as all the monk energy armors, to hit their 75% cap(A PPU currently needs about 60 con in energy to cap at 92% but thats with self cast shields giving 75%)

[LiL T]

bah nvm

[netster]

maybe of psi spells still being random damage?

[Dribble Joy]

Your goal should be to get as close as you can to your resist cap particularly vs energy and pierce , since these comprise 75% of the dmg from all the high end weapons.
I'm still going to go down the route of getting equal resists in all areas, there's a lot of poison, xray and other dmg types out there, I'm not going to leave myself open to anyone.

As for hitting the resist cap, it's not so much a big thing I feel, the right hp/armour balance is still important.

Anyway, DJ's current setup:

CCP
SWAT
PPR
Balance advancer 3
Pistol eye 3 (afaik)
exp reflex 2.4

camo PEPA
All crahn armour bar titanium chest and light energy belt.

Alas I can't get online atm to get the exact resist values and hp amount.

[Lifewaster]

I made an apu-hybrid to try to see how good an APU resists were with 25% foreign shields , so I gave him the basic shields in order to see his resists with those, which work out about same self-cast.

With the 50 poison underwear , he had 51 poison armor all over. Then with 60 con in poison he got the following result.

Damage: 119.232 Target Poison HitZone 1 - Part 1
Damage: 85.842 (Reduction: 33.390 - 28.004 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 66.647 (Reduction: 52.585 - 44.103 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 61.828 (Reduction: 57.404 - 48.145 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 61.828 (Reduction: 57.404 - 48.145 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.750!


So 48% total, and he took 61 dmg per shot at chaos caves.

Then I tested to see just how much con he needed to hit 75%:
Turned out he needed 120 con in poison for it.....

Damage: 119.232 Target Poison HitZone 1 - Part 1
Damage: 87.562 (Reduction: 31.670 - 26.561 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 67.983 (Reduction: 51.249 - 42.983 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 30.208 (Reduction: 89.024 - 74.665 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 30.208 (Reduction: 89.024 - 74.665 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.750!


Whats interesting is that 50 armor + 60 con works out approx 50% overall resist when a shield is giving 25%. While 50 armor + 120 con works out to 75% with a same shield.....halving the dmg taken.


......I will try to do further test using a poison belt to see what a 150 armor +50 con setup works out to.


EDit:

Well the poison belt was rather inconclusive.....it may be bugged , but when I tried using just the belt , without the underwear, it gave 118 poison in torso.... however when taking torso dmg the log showed that it gave a bit less resist then when I had 51 armor on torso...(it felt like the belt was giving about 18 rather then 118)

Then using belt in addition to underwear, gave 169 poison at torso...this resulted in getting 75% resist when at 115 con poison (only 5 con diff from using the underwear only.....again it seems the heavy belt actually only adds 18 rather then 118)

[Dribble Joy]

It seems that armour and resists work independantly now.
Before armour total reduced dmg, which was then affected by shields, now shields are applied, then armour, then resists.

What's odd is if you look at the first example you gave:

Damage: 119.232 Target Poison HitZone 1 - Part 1
Damage: 85.842 (Reduction: 33.390 - 28.004 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 66.647 (Reduction: 52.585 - 44.103 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 61.828 (Reduction: 57.404 - 48.145 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 61.828 (Reduction: 57.404 - 48.145 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.750!

If resist actually reduced the dmg by 48% of 57, the dmg after resists would be about 66-27=39. However, it's only reducing by about 5. It's as if it's only using the difference in armour and resists.
Or the resist reductions don't increase much at below 75 or something.

What we need are examples without armour or shields with a wide range of resist values.

[Lifewaster]

What's odd is if you look at the first example you gave:
.......
.......
What we need are examples without armour or shields with a wide range of resist values.

Your right, that example must be a wrong log sorry. I tested again with 60 con and no armor/shield....


Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 19.700 Target Poison HitZone 3 - Part 0
Damage: 19.700 (Reduction: 0.000 - 0.000 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 13.935 (Reduction: 5.765 - 29.266 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 13.935 (Reduction: 5.765 - 29.266 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.750!


So 60 con resist gives 29%....which if applied to the 66 dmg, would give 19 reduction...not 5

The 5 reduction works out about 8% of 66 dmg....so I guess that log was with about 25 con somehow, not 60.

[Dribble Joy]

Could we get a look at 60 por with the armour and shields again?

60 por gave a 48% reduction (or so it seems) in the first case, but 29% in the last one.
If dmg reductions are dependant on the others, it's going to make things very complicated.

[Lifewaster]

Ok heres all 3 again fresh tested:


60 con poison resist with no armor and no shields:

Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 19.700 Target Poison HitZone 3 - Part 0
Damage: 19.700 (Reduction: 0.000 - 0.000 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 13.935 (Reduction: 5.765 - 29.266 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 13.935 (Reduction: 5.765 - 29.266 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.750!




60 con poison resist with 51 poison armor no shields:

Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 19.700 Target Poison HitZone 3 - Part 0
Damage: 15.295 (Reduction: 4.405 - 22.361 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 10.819 (Reduction: 8.881 - 45.082 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 10.819 (Reduction: 8.881 - 45.082 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.750!


60 con poison resist with 51 poison armor, and basic (28%) shields

Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 19.700 Target Poison HitZone 3 - Part 0
Damage: 14.073 (Reduction: 5.627 - 28.565 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 10.926 (Reduction: 8.774 - 44.538 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 7.728 (Reduction: 11.972 - 60.769 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 7.728 (Reduction: 11.972 - 60.769 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.750!


EDIT:

Heres with 0 con resist, and 51 armor


Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 19.700 Target Poison HitZone 3 - Part 0
Damage: 15.295 (Reduction: 4.405 - 22.361 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 15.287 (Reduction: 4.413 - 22.401 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 15.287 (Reduction: 4.413 - 22.401 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.750!


So , 60 con alone gives 29% , 51 armor alone gives 22% ....yet both together gives 45%.....

If we look at the armor+con example, theres 15.2 dmg remaining after armor , this then changed to 10.8 dmg, after skills ....which means the skills gave about 29% vs that remaining 15 dmg...which is the same % as when using con alone. So they are being applied correctly, its just they are applied only to remaining dmgs after each section.

[Apocalypsox]

wait....i actually understand the new system! OH GOD! o_O

Definetly alot of math involved. *Goes to test his spies con*

[CMaster]

Its nautral. Resists are inherrently lakcing linearity, so the stacking does also.
Observe this example. Initally, you have to increase your resistances by 50% to half your damage. However, if your resistances are already 80%, you only need a 10% "increase" in resistance to DOUBLE your lifespan... So the two values shouldn't add togther strictly linearly...

The way lifewaster describes it as working is a sensible and fairly simple way of resistances working. It does of course, make choosing how much of any resist, and where to have it a less than simple choice.

[Lifewaster]

It does of course, make choosing how much of any resist, and where to have it a less than simple choice.

I think however......under the new system , its far better to aim for high primary resist, ie: energy/pierce then trying to balance both primary and secondarys.

For example a SH will make perhaps 360 piercing dmg , if modded it will make 300 pierce + 100 xray.

If you have 50% pierce/75% xray in this case , you will take 150pierce+25 xray = 175 dmg.
But with 75% pierce/0% xray , you will take only 75 pierce+100 xray = 175 dmg....

Adding to that you must consider if its modded with force or fire instead of xray, so you need to also have 75% vs force/fire in order to just sustain to 175 dmg vs all versions of SH.

So a setup with 50% pierce + 75% force/fire/xray only makes the same defense as a setup with 75% pierce and 0 force/fire/xray.

#####

Exact same applies to the high tech wepons they are all 300 energy + 100 ish fire/xray/force ....with the exception of the xbow which is about 60 xray/40 energy.

So a high tech resist setup will want to aim for high energy and perhaps medium xray, with lesser fire/poison .

#####

Only APUs can deal fire/poison Primary dmg , and that can be partly offset by utilising Resist Psi.

[Dribble Joy]

Local Playeramage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 19.700 Target Poison HitZone 3 - Part 0
Damage: 15.295 (Reduction: 4.405 - 22.361 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 15.287 (Reduction: 4.413 - 22.401 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 15.287 (Reduction: 4.413 - 22.401 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.750!

Ahha.
The confusion is because of the way the program is reporting the results.
I was assuming the resist reduction percentage was the independant resist reduction value, not the cumulative value.

It would be more useful if it gave us the % numbers each step was delivering, rather than for us to have to wade through them to build up what's going on.

[Lifewaster]

Little update:

Tested with a APU+Ppu support (holy shields + heat 3)

In order for the APU to hit 75% total resist vs energy , it needed exactly 92 resist energy in con. As well as all the blessed spirit armor + woc PA. However, since the shields lose % after taking dmg, it seemed speccing 93/94 total resist energy was more prudent.

So a base of 53 energy + 15 from PPR + 25 from heat 3 seems the most realiable APU setup vs Energy atm...in order to hit 75% total with foreign buffs and shields....(btw the foreign holy shields were giving 16%, quite a lot weaker then even a self cast basic shield )

Also:
Unbuffed, the same APU gets 62% .....so PPU support can be quite significant as it can bring a APU from 62% to 75% (allthough monks have 200+ energy armor which probably slanted the test a bit...we will test out the APU+PPU vs Piercing later and give you those figures.)

[LiL T]

Local Player: HitZone verification result TORSO

Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 52.168 Target Energy HitZone 1 - Part 0
Damage: 33.228 (Reduction: 18.940 - 36.305 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 24.158 (Reduction: 28.010 - 53.692 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 17.029 (Reduction: 35.139 - 67.357 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 17.029 (Reduction: 35.139 - 67.357 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.840!

Damage: 34.776 Target X-Ray HitZone 1 - Part 1
Damage: 22.150 (Reduction: 12.626 - 36.305 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 17.875 (Reduction: 16.901 - 48.599 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 8.984 (Reduction: 25.792 - 74.166 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 8.984 (Reduction: 25.792 - 74.166 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.840!

Local Player: HitZone verification result TORSO

Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 57.160 Target Piercing HitZone 1 - Part 0
Damage: 47.806 (Reduction: 9.355 - 16.365 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 36.020 (Reduction: 21.141 - 36.985 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 23.782 (Reduction: 33.378 - 58.393 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 23.782 (Reduction: 33.378 - 58.393 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.840!

Local Player: HitZone verification result ALL

Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 80.278 Target Force HitZone 3 - Part 0
Damage: 65.826 (Reduction: 14.452 - 18.002 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 49.641 (Reduction: 30.637 - 38.164 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 32.776 (Reduction: 47.502 - 59.172 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 32.776 (Reduction: 47.502 - 59.172 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.840!

Damage: 53.519 Target Fire HitZone 3 - Part 1
Damage: 39.594 (Reduction: 13.925 - 26.018 Percentage) - Damage reduced by shield
Damage: 28.053 (Reduction: 25.466 - 47.583 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 21.831 (Reduction: 31.688 - 59.209 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 21.831 (Reduction: 31.688 - 59.209 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.840!




Just picks from one of my damage logs, has location of body hit, screenshot of amounts of resist in con and armor. I went for as balanced as I could but it was a bit of a rush job :p I just wanted to get messing with the new stuff. Its an odd setup lowtech earp/ blacksun and other hightech non rare pistols, works ok actully :) no posion but I pop a greendragon and get over 70 posion with over 600 hitpoints so not to shabby imo


/edit So how is it stacking the shield, armor and player skill %'s O_o thats what I wanna know and I'm crap at maths :(

/edit2 Ah nvm I just worked it out, It just takes away the shield percentage first then the number is rounded up, which is then reduced by armor and then finaly skills simple.

[Lifewaster]

I think you can sort of reverse calculate how much self-buffed resist you will need, if you use a resist potion to simulate the 25 con effect of a heat3, then you can test your dmg unbuffed ,to find how much con/armor you need :

For APUS with a 75% cap:
If you assume a foreign shield will give 16% ..
Then you have a incoming dmg of 84%..
So you will need to have the 84% reduced to 25%( for 75% cap)..
This means a reduction of the 84, by 59.. (84 -59 = 25)
59 is 70% of 84..
So you need a resist of 70% w/o shields , but including heat3 (but you can use a resist energy potion to simulate this when testing) Without heat 3 it worked out at 62%.

For Tanks with a 88% cap:
If you assume a foreign shield will give 16%..
Then incoming dmg remains of 84%..
So you need to reduce that to to 12%..(for 88% cap)
This means a reduction of the 84 by 72.. (84 - 72 = 12)
72 is 85% of 84..
So a Tank needs to aim for a resist of 85% w/o shields , but including heat 3(or use energy resist potion when testing) Without heat 3, its maybe 80% ? havent tested yet..

#######

To be honest I dont know if a tank can achieve this at all....if my math is right, then foreign shields can only bring a tank from 85% to 88% , while they bring an APU from 70% to 75%. Allthough lets remember the APU was at 62% before heat 3....the combination of Heat 3 + foreign shields brought it from 62% to 75%, perhaps the effect will be similar for a tank.

[Lifewaster]

@ LilT

I see in your log you get 36% shield effect from Absorber (xray/energy)
Then 26% shield effect from Protector (fire/poison)
But just 18% shield effect from Deflector (force/pierce)

This makes sense according to their respective TLs, but isnt it possible to use blessed deflector instead for a PE ? that could make quite a diff since it would give 40% or more I think.

[LiL T]

@ LilT

I see in your log you get 36% shield effect from Absorber (xray/energy)
Then 26% shield effect from Protector (fire/poison)
But just 18% shield effect from Deflector (force/pierce)

This makes sense according to their respective TLs, but isnt it possible to use blessed deflector instead for a PE ? that could make quite a diff since it would give 40% or more I think.

Yeah its possible to use blessed def but that would mean some gimpage I think, I had a quick look at the possibilitys, nightspider has been nerfed for a start. Think NS only gives +2 PSI now and theres other drugs that give PSI but nerfed by the looks of it, lol seems everything is pre nerfed. Theres one thing I hate when making a setup and thats gimping to use stuff, like having -40 agilility or something stupid. First thing I did was setup to use all hightech rare pistols, then I saw I could not get anywhere near cap stats we are use to, then I tryed the slasher out side at MB and I was like man thats just CACK :mad:

Lowtech all the way..

/edit The judge was pretty cool though, like full automatic fire so I may has to try that out again :)

[Dribble Joy]

You can't cap stuff now anyway. As for no high tech, well it's more a case of no high TL, there's still low and high techs lower down the TLs, and there's less +dex stuff about now, so most PEs won't go much beyond judge/slasher (slasher's now tl 103 isn't it?).

As for the judge being good and the slasher cack, remember the weapons still need balancing (and the dmg a judge does is a bit shit atm btw).

Blessed def is still tl35, but since PEs can't use the resist buffs anymore, it's a bit of a push to use one (though the tl3 one is a bit... crap).
Though we need to also remember many of the spells tls are being reworked and it may be that PEs loose the blessed def.