View Full Version : no more basic self-buffs for free ?
Hi,
I wanted to understand, sorry if it has been explained in the past :
Tank : only way to buff themself is nanites : it's money/time/recycle consuming AND inventory dependant
Spy: they can use psi modules, if not, it's money/time/recycle consuming and inventory dependant.
at the same time, PEs and Monks can do it for free as they use psi modules (i mean no money). From my point of view, i don't think it's a good thing to do classes more expensive to play than others. Balanced at the same price, yes ! Balanced at different playing-price, i say no.
Why this choice ? Do you think it's fair ? discuss.
Dribble Joy
15-02-07, 12:03
Diddums.
Monks and PEs still need to buy psi and sta boosters and besides, there's not enough of a general cash requirment for chars bar singular large cash dumps (furniture, PA, etc.).
You can recycle drugs, nanites and boosters anyway.
Monks and PE's also use PSI boosters. PSI 3's are not cheap for a APU.
/Edit: LOL - Beaten by DJ...
Lifewaster
15-02-07, 12:17
Well it depends how practical it is to recycle nanite ammos
Havent tested any of the recycle yields yet in test.
Dribble Joy
15-02-07, 13:09
Probably be similar to drugs, 3 packs from an r10 or something.
Diddums.
Monks and PEs still need to buy psi and sta boosters and besides, there's not enough of a general cash requirment for chars bar singular large cash dumps (furniture, PA, etc.).
You can recycle drugs, nanites and boosters anyway.
That's not exactly true.
If you don't have nanites, you can't do *anything* if you're stuck with no HLT.
But with a PSI module, and a psi pool which regenerate itself you can use it in any situation !
there's not enough of a general cash requirment for chars bar singular large cash dumps
can't agree. that a force of neocron. You can play with a small amount of cash, one day a week for example.
Dribble Joy
15-02-07, 13:16
Someone either doesn't have a monk or doesn't use any psi. You NEED psi boosters, even PEs (and especially PEs in 2.2), it just doesn't regenerate fast enough. A PPU or APU without boosters will run out of psi and have to wait while itbuilds back up again, in the meantime they are without spells - sitting ducks.
By all means make the nanite packs lighter, but I don't see the need for them to be free.
can't agree. that a force of neocron. You can play with a small amount of cash, one day a week for example.
Clearly your first language isn't english, but I still don't really know what you mean here, or rather whether it's of relevance.
Once a char has attained all his/her end-game items, what is there to continuously drain cash from the player pool in order to prevent massive over-inflation?
Furniture? Well OK, you go off and you spend a butt load of cash on an apt.
Then what?
There's little turnover, money pours into the player accounts with not enough going out.
And aside from any pseudo-economic modelling, I still think that chars/players need to earn their way. Recycling alone is a big enough dent to spending (you can easily get your drugs and ammo for free, hunt mobs, recycle junk, cash, items parts and all the drugs and ammo you need).
Someone either doesn't have a monk or doesn't use any psi. You NEED psi boosters, even PEs (and especially PEs in 2.2), it just doesn't regenerate fast enough. A PPU or APU without boosters will run out of psi and have to wait while itbuilds back up again, in the meantime they are without spells - sitting ducks.
By all means make the nanite packs lighter, but I don't see the need for them to be free.
If everybody needs nanites or something to play "normaly", so why paying for it ? Maybe it's a "too much" anti-capitalist mind, i can understand that :)
I agree you should pay to have "enhanced nanites", but the basics ones ?
I understand better if PEs will need psi boosts... it doesn't explain the Tank case.
What am i pointing is a *conceptual* thing of the game: some classes in evo 2.2 will have a free way to buff/shield/heal (i speak about the BASIC way, like TL3 heal) while some others not. Conceptually, at start, that's not fair.
Actually on my lowtech PE, i don't use any psi boosters. With my spy, most of the time on PvE i don't use any cost-consuming items appart ammos.
Clearly your first language isn't english, but I still don't really know what you mean here, or rather whether it's of relevance.
Sorry for trying to give a feedback !! (lol)
You're right but that's not that bad english, so please don't blame me for this ;)
When i say "can't agree. that a force of neocron. You can play with a small amount of cash, one day a week for example." , i mean that the fact you can play without paying furnitures (or very few credits) is one of the thing i like in NC. A least in PvE situation, i don't like the idea to pay furnitures to level my char. I prefer to spend time and get the skill to protect myself (like with psi skills) than just level to earn money and then buy the nice shield tool ...
EDit:
Clearly your first language isn't english
DJ, now everybody knows that you're able to read a signature ^^
Well it depends how practical it is to recycle nanite ammos
Havent tested any of the recycle yields yet in test.
In terms of recycling the only problem with nanites is the high TL. As you already have to get your T-C up to 115, bringing recycling to 48 starts to really drain on other urgently needed skills.
The ammount of nanos you get our of junk is quite sufficient. (The weight of the nanos is not, though. You can easily overload yourself with a few capsules of the size of your thumb. My first speculation was that nanites are made of uranium, but then i calculated and came to the conclusion that uranium is way too light to be used for nanites... )
Actually right now with most weapons you would not have any junk left to make nanos out since your ammo useage exceeds the ammount of junk looted, but that's not a problem of recycling for nanites.
I forgot to say i've not played the test server yet (as i have a password problem...). That's good to know amount of nanos you get from junk is relevant.
but why, why a spy could have a backup (emergency?) PSI free/heal/buff solution while tanks not ?
That's why i never liked nanites, at least for shields. When we discussed on that topic in the past, i voted for the "high-tech shield tool" and i wasn't alone.
Anyway i hope the best for nanites concept ...
On the same kind of subject, and if we follow that concept, we could add energy cells for stealth generator ? :rolleyes:
Actually i really see two problems on the nanites:
1. they are, as already mentioned, way too heavy. I now skilled transport to 86. For a spy, that's massive and painful but with my load of nanites, which drains fast in combat, it's unavoidable.
2. While they are useful, the high requirements are painful. Implant doesn't bother me personally since i had that before already, but INT and T-C requirements could be tuned down a tad. (Also, if it's not intended that each and every spy in the future works as imper, the implant requirement should perhaps be reconsidered. )
Lifewaster
16-02-07, 15:10
Theres no reason to use a nanite heal if you are capable of a jones heal....both give about the same hp.
A standard 2.2 spy setup will use jones heal, and nanite shields. The top lvl nanite shields also last 6 mins making ammo a bit less of an issue there.
Lifewaster
16-02-07, 15:13
2. While they are useful, the high requirements are painful.
Yes the 100 int requirement is a particular problem now with the new PA giving -3.2 int, while the only non-brain implant (advanced nerrves) gives +2.9 int.
Result is a net -1 , or 99 int spy.....which means a brain slot must now be devoted to raising INT (and only the basic neural advancer, since the other better int imps will gimp dex) just to use the nanites.
I thought about a small noob tank with no money and needs to buy nanites to heal himself... "please i'm dying and i have no money" ...
Same idea: It remembers me that first level implants which doesn't require any lubs gel to get poked ! So to be coherent, make it requires gel ? No. Make basics free for noobs, please, neocron is difficult enough to start like that....
When you are noob, 2000nc is not nothing !
Remembering how I was happy when I got my first heal spell and stopped buying medkits :)
I remember the first time I ever got 100k, I thought I was rich at the time but now I know how insignificant 100k is - yet we get given 2k at the start (1k of that even goes on using the GR to escape MC5) and are now expected to buy nanites.
Newbs will perish.
I remember the first time I ever got 100k, I thought I was rich at the time but now I know how insignificant 100k is - yet we get given 2k at the start (1k of that even goes on using the GR to escape MC5) and are now expected to buy nanites.
Newbs will perish.
/agree
If the compromise is going to be cash, the amount given to new chars should be revisited. Make the first MC5 GR free too... If a moderator want to split the thread, he can ... (it could be done now on the retail server but that's another subject).
Just a "up" to say this topic is linked to current discussions on Nanite Techno (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=137837)
topic linked to the discussion about furnitures prices (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=138245) from community talk forum.
I would be pleased to have an official answer on what dev's think about this issue.
I did some fights and hunt on TS. in one hour, i spend maybe about 20-30 stacks (all types included) of nanites per hour ? I don't know exactly.
If i remember right nanites are about 700nc per unit.
but if you decide to recycle it, you'll need to make as many differents nanites type as you need on your template (or the situation needs).
If you need to recycle six differents protections, it begins to be very boring :/
When you think how the inventory arrange and stacks items ...
It was ok to recycle psi boosters, today it's different, especially for the spy !
-EDIT- for instance nanites are very heavy too. but i think it's going to be fixed.
The prices of and the amount of nanites needed is what's going to keep me playing my PPU for the rest of my Neocron life :p
Sorry for what i've posted before which can be a little confusing: "furniture" is a false-friend word in english to french poeple ^^.
"Fournitures" in french means "supplies" like ammo, nanites, sta boosts. It's like pens or staples in real life. sorry :/
@dogface: i can understand what you said :)
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