spy-pe-tank: balanced

[jini]

Yesterday I had the chance of trying duels with skilled players. We tried dueling spies, pes, tanks. We mainly tested H-C, pistols and rifles. From what I saw, all of the above classes seem finely balanced. The spy obviously has still a lot of advantages like stealth tools and sniping weapons, which weren't used for obvious reasons, and also they are versatile, since they can easily hack. Therefore, what is still left is, to bring apus up a little bit, or leave them as they are now, that is a character only for OP fights, together with a ppu. We haven't tested things like melee PE, or rifle PE, or pure low tech PE, or melee tank, but I suppose these are balanced too. There is only a question of PEs that try using low low weapons, or how easy they can use low tech, high TL berettas.

What remains to be tested for PEs, is antibuff nanites. From all the above, we can easily understand, spies have 10 things to do, PEs 4 an tanks only 1 (shoot):p

[tarasm]

Its seems good to see neocron is finaly becoming BALANCED!!!!!!<3 KK

[jini]

Indeed, but we should note, that Skill still plays HUGE role in the battle outcome. So I can safely say that 2.2 preserves NC character

[Dribble Joy]

Can't say I agree yet.

[Zerion]

I've caved and have installed the TS...expect to see my PE, spouting some stupidly high-tl rifle soon.

[awkward silence]

I really disagree with jini!

I think they need to "unfuck" the PE's psi nerf a bit and bring the PE nanites to 50 fcs just to name a few.

Also... what weapon were the PE/spies/tanks using?

X-bow to Judge for example is/has a huge gap in effectivenes.

Also tanks runspeed nerfs are BS.

Seeming balanced and being balanced is a very different thing. MC/HC PE... how bout a PC/RC tank? Those are fucked. And i doubt the others arent.

Monks is another issue...

I think 2.1 was not better or worse than 2.2 just different things better or worse.

[Dribble Joy]

I've caved and have installed the TS...expect to see my PE, spouting some stupidly high-tl rifle soon.
Well I saw one PE with a barretta (dex 113) on the TS, so if you drug like a dirty slag you should be able to reach most weapons.

[Zheo]

Well I saw one PE with a barretta (dex 113) on the TS, so if you drug like a dirty slag you should be able to reach most weapons.

I'd rather Pe's didnt have to drug for guns, i'd rather drugs didn't give a main skill advantage but instead implants gave more. Drugs should be an add on NOT a requirement.

[Dribble Joy]

Removing the mainstat only really increases class distinction (though that's far from a bad thing), spies will still have more subskills than PEs so will get more out of a weapon of any tl.
Also, going for a tl 100+ on a PE means at least three mainstat brain imps and PA, with drugs on top probably.

Now there aren't caps so low down, it's not really a balance issue if PEs are using high tl weapons.

[J J]

I'd rather Pe's didnt have to drug for guns, i'd rather drugs didn't give a main skill advantage but instead implants gave more. Drugs should be an add on NOT a requirement.

PE's don't have to drug for guns. Drugs are not a requirement. PE's are designed as a jack of all trades, they can do a little of what all the other classes can do, but not go as far down the path. It amuses me all these posts about how the poor PE's have to take drugs to reach TL 110 ish weapons - they're not designed to be able to use these weapons without drugs! If you want to be able to use a TL 113 weapon easily, roll a spy. It's not rocket science, it's just people searching for something to give them an edge, you want PE resists with spy TL weapons. Guess what, you ain't gonna get it unless you gimp your setup by using drugs. You don't see all the poor spies moaning about how they have to take 25 drugs to use a blessed shelter - you know the limitations of the class before you roll a char - you wanna use items that class can't use, roll a different class.


It's the same with PC/RC tanks, APU spies, whatever - it's a class that's not designed to use those weapons. If you want to find a setup that works using those weapons then fine, but it's not what they were designed to do so don't whine if you have to seriously gimp yourself to make it work. You want to play a rifler/pistolier then roll a spy or a PE. It's not like theres not plenty of options already. I have absolutely no problem with people making pistol tanks - it's a free world but it's up to you to find something that works, the game shouldn't be designed so a pistol tank can necessarily beat a HC/MC tank, as that's what tanks are designed for.

[jini]

I really disagree with jini!

Disagree that we tried different classes and they were even?
We tested pistol PE(xbow of course) and we did this because these were overpowered both in 2.1 and 2.2, rifle spy, and h-c tank. As you remember in 2.1 if an xbow pe meet the other two, the xbow pe will win. Same thing in an OP fight, where everyone ends up playing ppus/apus, tanks and some xbow pes.

[netster]

lowtech pe's would need like a 10% boost thought.... but they are mostly alike on retail...

uh. maybe no boost, cause i just rewatched my setup and saw the paineaser i was using is TL93. best i can say is the earp+libby (lowtech, non TC pistols) are basically ok, a slightly boost may help them (basically i think the libby might need a lil update, make it like TL100 might help). Paineaser is ok, thought its a lowTL too... a slight boost may be ok, cause it keeps remaining a non-tc and not very vailable for the latest boosts from tc+stuff.

[awkward silence]

Disagree that we tried different classes and they were even?
We tested pistol PE(xbow of course) and we did this because these were overpowered both in 2.1 and 2.2, rifle spy, and h-c tank. As you remember in 2.1 if an xbow pe meet the other two, the xbow pe will win. Same thing in an OP fight, where everyone ends up playing ppus/apus, tanks and some xbow pes.

Nope. I disagree with your findings from the test. Testing only x-bow PE's and saying things are balanced is a bit shortsighted. Most players will never get the chance/time to get woc ingame

[Dribble Joy]

Not everyone necessarily wants to use the xbow either. The WoC dmg bonus really needs to go.

[jini]

Nope. I disagree with your findings from the test. Testing only x-bow PE's and saying things are balanced is a bit shortsighted. Most players will never get the chance/time to get woc ingame
Ok I agree that it is shortsighted, but no-xbow PE is a rarity nowadays, at least on Terra :p.
However the other two have now got a certain powerboost over what they used to be on terra, meaning spies in OP fights are now a cool option, Tanks in OP fights too... It's not just apus/ppus anymore.
If you try fighting killer clowns on Terra (soad on mars) you will know what I am talking about. They ONLY bring apu/ppu teams and the occasional droner...

[jini]

I Believe, that a lot more balancing is required for viable low tech pes, in terms of boosting defenses, melee PEs, APUs, fix the drones, give something to the pistol spy, or let him use one more tradeskill ... and such