View Full Version : poor little noobs...
Are they not going to make leveling EASIER rather than HARDER for new comers ?
I've got 4 people that are gonna join soon, but they're gonnna hate it if it takes 3 pistol clips to kill a bloody cocroach !
I know what you mean. I'm never making another noob again.
You mean easier for nobby? :rolleyes: I know how you don't like levelling your own characters even with the current retail settings let alone the 2.2 ones. :p It's still a valid (and repeated) point though.
They eventually tweaked the settings once, so hopefully if people still complain they'll change them again for the better. Personally I don't think it's too much of a problem now after the recent patch. The only problem I can see is the cash rewards for killing creatures being less (assuming they've remained the same, I can't say I paid attention to mob cash rewards), obviously because you're spending more time killing one creature, and getting a petty reward, before moving onto the next one. This means you're using up a fair amount of ammo and nanites if you aren't a monk, which means not much money left over to buy armour and weapons which are essential levelling equipment, especially now with the 2.2 settings. Yet again, monks have it all too easy.
Currently on the retail servers you have creatures that are all generally easy to kill, and they die very quickly giving a nice cash reward, and on the majority of mobs the loot is either trivial or bugged at times. This is why monks are able to get millions of credits very quickly just from trivial levelling in part thanks to their overpowered spells.
Upping the loot value and requiring people to sell the junk might bring barterers back into the game a bit - however it's probable that what happens now on retail will continue. And that is, someone only logs on their own or their friends tradeskiller once or twice a month only for themselves, for reasons mentioned in the next paragraph. Neocron is currently cushioned in carebearness, and making things a bit harder is generally a good thing.
Until tradeskillers are rewarded rather than slapped in the face for their tedious/boring work, the tradeskiller situation will generally remain that way. Tradeskillers are usually paid a fraction of the amount they could have earnt if they spent the same amount of time hunting as they did tradeskilling, so why bother wasting your time on someone who wants to rip you off for your hard work? It needs to change. Players are accustomed to spending little and receiving a lot. The same applies to levelling.
I find meele the only real way to go to start at the moment. that or teaming in a vhc
This means you're using up a fair amount of ammo and nanites if you aren't a monk, which means not much money left over to buy armour and weapons which are essential levelling equipment, especially now with the 2.2 settings. Yet again, monks have it all too easy.
This is the main thing that I'm worrying about (as I'm thinking about creating a new character for 2.2)... I don't want to be broke during leveling, and I don't particularly want to rely upon a clan for all my money / items. Plus that'd be bad for noobs in general...
Seraphin[69]
10-03-07, 19:46
I didn't test with the last patch's settings but when I tried to level a nib I arrived @ a point I couldn't afford the ammo to kill the mobs (and I'm not talking about nanites or medikits)
I can't speak for other chars, but as a tank you can spec enough recycle instantly (16), to recycle your starting first-aid kit and ammo. I still think there isn't enough money to be earned in the newly lengthened levelling process, but being able to recycle takes some of the sting out of it.
Ive never had any problems leveling as a noob and even when i first started. to this day, neocron is the fastest leveling mmo u can get right now. We cant complain cuz the moment u do. We might get jinxed.
Ok
So 4 clips on a roach is fair ?
Listen to my main point !
NOOBS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD NEW AMMO FROM KILLING MOBS !
They'll not know about the joys of recycling straight away, so it's not gonna be an easy life for the newcomer.
Unless they increase the cash reward... They're fucking screwed !
ashley watts
11-03-07, 14:48
Levling offically sucks k thx ! :P
Ok
So 4 clips on a roach is fair ?
Listen to my main point !
NOOBS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD NEW AMMO FROM KILLING MOBS !
They'll not know about the joys of recycling straight away, so it's not gonna be an easy life for the newcomer.
Unless they increase the cash reward... They're fucking screwed !
they wont even know that pressing alt H pulls out there pritty little fists to punch the mobs to death =] my noob i roled on the test server was so hard up i actualy went hunting dragonflys with my fists =]
didnt think id ever say ... well nobby i aggree with you. but in this case i do.
I thought fists were disabled in 2.2
I thought fists were disabled in 2.2
That and Dragonflies fucking own noobs :p
I went on test earlier. Got a capped rifle PE with no money/items. I eeked out enough to buy a weapon and go aggie hunting for a bit of cash. Aggie hits me for 400 damage in one volley........ played
Aggie hits me for 400 damage in one volley
Go better prepared next time.
N
Now you're really helpfull Nidd. ;)
Lifewaster
11-03-07, 18:23
Well, currently (as patch 168) noob lvling isnt impossible, my apu got from 8 INT/16 PSI to 9 INT/18 PSI with about an hours hunting of rank 5 mobs, and didnt lose money since it cost about 200nc for a booster per mob , while the mob dropped in general 200-500nc worth of inplants he could sell ......I'd assume 200nc would also cover the cost of the 3-4 ammo clips for a gun user to hunt them.
Also, it seems it may now be very easy to powerlvl noobs with vehicles.....since the passengers now receive the same combat rank from them as the driver/gunner. (allthough this hasnt yet been confirmed as intended)
Go better prepared next time.
N
ahem... if the aggies were that dangerouse the NCPD would send in a army of copbots to eradicate the threat to the city...
Go better prepared next time.
N
Surely an equipped low level runner is going to get mauled by the aggies if a capped PE gets hit for 400 (I know that health has increased dramatically), even without equipment?
If you get hit for that much damage then you need to re-evaluate your defensive configuration.
N
seriously.. fix leveling before release 2.2.
a lot of returning players could be starting new chars... do you even want to get them to stay?
/sarcasm
I think its perfectly balanced to have a capped PE with around 40% in force resist, 40% in piercing resist getting 400 hits, because 25/25 runners usually have more resists than that.
/sarcasm off
:angel:
RogerRamjet
11-03-07, 20:34
Aggies take 400 off capped PEs :wtf:
So, has the average PE now got like 400,000 HP or something?
I had 50 in pierce and force but no armour :|
Looks like they better let newbies pilot warbots so they can level. If an aggie can do that, I'd love to see what a Percie is capable of...
If you get hit for that much damage then you need to re-evaluate your defensive configuration.
N
Maybe you should go try it out you self first? ;)
I think it would be a good idea if someone from KK would.
Go better prepared next time.
N
So are you not going to even Comment on the TOPIC at hand ?
I asked about the situation of noobs lvling ...
I Thought 2.2 was to attract people ?
Some fuck up this is seriously going to be for new people joining !
So are you not going to even Comment on the TOPIC at hand ?
I've moved this to the balancing forum. Our intention is to make levelling neither easy nor hard, but fair. We've heard about the Aggie situation so that helps a bit more, but a log dump would be really useful.
The more information you can give us the better.
N
Quite frankly, you shouldn't go with "fair", you should go with "easy". Just reduce the amount of cash drops accordingly.
As we all know the main focus of this game is PvP, and the time you spent grinding levels..yup..thats the time you are not pvping. I have 4 capped characters myself, so im not trying to get it easy for myself, i want it to be easy enough for the new players and oldies that want new toons to play with.
And im quite sure i don't need to back the above up with any arguments, it would simply be for the best.
:)
This means you're using up a fair amount of ammo and nanites if you aren't a monk
This is why monks are able to get millions of credits very quickly just from trivial levelling in part thanks to their overpowered spells.
Umm no, monks make cash so fast because they have by far the best aoe. Have you even ever leveled a monk retail? Boosters are 100x more of a pain in the ass than ammo is due to monks having low str for trans, boosters not stacking, booster 3s taking tons of stuff to make just one via recycling, and the price of boosters.
While it is true that monks make cash fast, it is in no way due to their not needing ammo.
Quite frankly, you shouldn't go with "fair", you should go with "easy". Just reduce the amount of cash drops accordingly.
As we all know the main focus of this game is PvP, and the time you spent grinding levels..yup..thats the time you are not pvping. I have 4 capped characters myself, so im not trying to get it easy for myself, i want it to be easy enough for the new players and oldies that want new toons to play with.
And im quite sure i don't need to back the above up with any arguments, it would simply be for the best.
:)
Fooking A tbh
This isn't Counterstrike, guys.
N
Gulinborsti
11-03-07, 23:43
Mobs are too hard in general, not only the low level mobs have way too much HPs.
Point.
Who is listening?
KK not for sure.
Another thing that was nice balanced in 2.1 and got screwed in 2.2.
I did my testing, I read all the posts and tried to give my 2 cents of input but it seems that KK follows some big plan, big picture I can't see through by now.
Well, I'll give 2.2 a chance, but I am prepared for the worst. Even with full capped chars only the fun is out for me atm as everything works on TS.
Sad but true
This isn't Counterstrike, guys.
Nbut turning it into WoW isn't a great idea either, the balance you had was nice
Yeah just change it back to the way it was in 2.1. What's the point of changing it?
it isnt counterstrike, but some games can have a long process of leveling, because they have deep/enjoyable PVE. Neocron PVE is garbage, making people waste more of their life with that is not going to be a positive change in making more people play, especially the way its been done, just slowing down an already tedious process.
neocron leveling grind has always been a lot shorter then most games but always felt much longer.
but turning it into WoW isn't a great idea either, the balance you had was nice
Yeah, the balance on Xp/Cash/Item was perfecto in my opinion.
I never meant it should be counterstrike, but due to the fact that neocron pve isn't exactly the most rewarding of all mmo's it needs to be relatively easy so that people want to do it. ;)
ashley watts
12-03-07, 01:47
If you get hit for that much damage then you need to re-evaluate your defensive configuration.
N
Thats right Folks, Even if you are base rank 69 with a ppu up your arse, were still making levling impossible for you !
This isn't Counterstrike, guys.
N
No its Neocron... see the names are different :P
Dear gawd leveling better not be harder.
I'm newb, no money, no hand me downs.
Spent 5 hours hunting last night.
Managed to die 4 or 5 times, and lost about 30k to GR fees, poke tips etc.
And yes, that's after collecting what little loot my Pistol Spy can carry.
All for 1 level...
If 2.2 is harder, I'm outta here.
This isn't Counterstrike, guys.That's true, but the points made are still valid. PvP and roleplay (and now of course is a suitable time to plug in the same old word: Events!) should be primary concerns, but unfortunately they never are.
Unless you're a newbie 0/2 character that likes to make people lose SL at MB, trying to say they're roleplaying an annoying little twat, you need to near enough cap your character to be able to do any of these things well.
Neocron clearly isn't as sophisticated as other MMORPG's meaning levelling is boring, tradeskilling is boring as well as tedious not to mention very time consuming. There's never any official events except for perhaps some extremely trivial RP event that is usually follow-the-midlevel-roleplay-character. Typically played by someone who usually speaks Engrish and gets lost on the way to wherever they're leading you to.
The main point to be made from that is Neocron is mostly about Player vs Player combat. It's the primary activity that makes Neocron entertaining. With the lack of events or storyline over the years, or not particularly much to keep people interested in the game apart from the remaining small PvPing community, people (unless you're Icestorm :p) don't want to login to spend an evening researching 200 Raptor blueprints, or to repeatedly kill fire mobs in a Rhino at F12 for 8hours. There's not much fun in doing it.
All those sorts of things need to be taken into account when trying to accomplish this balancing, and that's the problem. Reakktor usually miss some of the crutial elements and don't seem to like acknowledging when they have missed (or chosen to ignore) something.
"no more free buffs" ! why !
I ever said that ammo's and nanite's will be a pain for noob. Spies can't live without it !!! Notice that i don't speak about nanite's weight (hpmf) and inventory stacking shit ...
At least, find a way to reward noobs with money consequently when they kill a mob ...
Neocron clearly isn't as sophisticated as other MMORPG's meaning levelling is boring, tradeskilling is boring as well as tedious not to mention very time consuming. There's never any official events except for perhaps some extremely trivial RP event that is usually follow-the-midlevel-roleplay-character. Typically played by someone who usually speaks Engrish and gets lost on the way to wherever they're leading you to.
The main point to be made from that is Neocron is mostly about Player vs Player combat. It's the primary activity that makes Neocron entertaining. With the lack of events or storyline over the years, or not particularly much to keep people interested in the game apart from the remaining small PvPing community, people (unless you're Icestorm :p) don't want to login to spend an evening researching 200 Raptor blueprints, or to repeatedly kill fire mobs in a Rhino at F12 for 8hours. There's not much fun in doing it.
My hero !
I would like to add much things have been added to Balance of classes, but I think people will still fight near the MB entrance ? (If they usually ? Tell me they don't anymore please ;)
the fact you loose an item, the fact you loose your imps, the fact you have to wait 20 minutes before you can start another PvP fight should be reviewed seriously.
At the release of 2.2 it should be compulsory for all staff to paricipate in taking a newly rolled character and capping it. If they all shared the same character and spent one hour each per day on it - how long would it take them?
Would there be arguments over who wasted ammo/money?
Would they stick it out or would levelling quietly and suddenly change?
At the release of 2.2 it should be compulsory for all staff to paricipate in taking a newly rolled character and capping it. If they all shared the same character and spent one hour each per day on it - how long would it take them?
Would there be arguments over who wasted ammo/money?
Would they stick it out or would levelling quietly and suddenly change?
that's the best idea i read in here for some time :D
tho mebbe they already should have done that on the testserver :p
Surely an equipped low level runner is going to get mauled by the aggies if a capped PE gets hit for 400 (I know that health has increased dramatically), even without equipment?
Judge, Aggies now do piercing and poison damage with their bullets. I bet you are dieing from poison. Guys, there are 7 damage types now and all are working independently. Pierce, Force, Energy, Fire, Xray, Poison, Psi damage.
I dont know how Psi damage reacts with psi fire for example... Life? Enlighten us..
Oh and after 2.2 arrives, leave the damage logs on
[ edited ]
Safunte dont speak like that jeez... And I demand from KK to give me a crossbow doing 80 rpms. Doesnt mean I am gonna get it. Its just a company, they work for their living. If we don't like the service they sells, we will simply move to other games.
As for other comments, KK is doing the mistake of moving away from fantasy with time fo more realistic representation of a game. Its still a game guys, you dont have to be FAIR with everything. Just lay your rules according to situation in hand
Lifewaster
12-03-07, 08:33
Judge, Aggies now do piercing and poison damage with their bullets. I bet you are dieing from poison.
Ok, 400 instant dmg from an aggy vs capped runner is impossible.. unless you stand still and let it fire an entire clip into you....but their dmg/sec is quite high so you could take 400 dmg if u did let it fire 4 bursts or so.
Aggys deal 44 pierce/11 poison , with gatling ROF = approx 4 hits per 1 sec burst.
Thus a 1 sec burst from an aggy = 160 pierce/44 poison
Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 44.339 Target Piercing HitZone 1 - Part 0
Damage: 34.328 (Reduction: 10.011 - 22.579 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 21.832 (Reduction: 22.506 - 50.760 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 21.832 (Reduction: 22.506 - 50.760 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.800!
Damage: 11.085 Target Poison HitZone 1 - Part 1
Damage: 11.085 (Reduction: 0.000 - 0.000 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 10.082 (Reduction: 1.003 - 9.051 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 10.082 (Reduction: 1.003 - 9.051 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.800!
Captains deal 53 pierce/13 poison , thus a 1 sec burst = 212 pierce/52 poison
Local Player:Damage() - Damage processing statistics!
Damage: 53.207 Target Piercing HitZone 0 - Part 0
Damage: 41.309 (Reduction: 11.897 - 22.361 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 26.273 (Reduction: 26.934 - 50.621 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 26.273 (Reduction: 26.934 - 50.621 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.800!
Damage: 13.302 Target Poison HitZone 0 - Part 1
Damage: 13.302 (Reduction: -0.000 - -0.000 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
Damage: 12.098 (Reduction: 1.204 - 9.051 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
Results of this target: Damage 12.098 (Reduction: 1.204 - 9.051 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.800!
######
With noob armor/deflector you should get from 25-30% resist so you're looking at 150-175 dmg per sec taken when you go toe to toe with an aggy.
######
This does kinda put aggy cellers/missions out of range of noobs until rank /20 , (unless they form big groups) but lets realise these are rank /37 mobs.
By comparison the rank /20 type mobs in mutant sidestreets hit a lot weaker (my rank 9/8 apu was able to solo there)
######
I think the noob lvling curve will now have to stay at begger cellers (rank /6 mobs) until the noob is rank /10 ......after which the mutant abandoned rooms (rank 15/25 mobs) can be done........and only entering aggys when the runner is rank /20
Overall its certainly going to be more tedious...............
ouch it's the 12th...
Goodbye "EASY" leveling :(
In all honesty - I can't see what the issue is (though im sure when i have a play in 2.2 I may do)
As a /10 runner you shouldn't be taking on mobs /+20 ranks above you and swatting them away like flies, or whats the point of having really low level dungeons?
In NC you have alwards progressed (ignoring noob mc5) from roaches, to rats, to plants, then to melee mutants, up to nail gun/rifle ones, then mutant captains, monks, standard aggressor's, then to aggressor captains and butchees and beyond.
It seems people really want to push for a jump from roaches to aggressor captains, as yes its a very fast way to level - especially with a ppu, but look at it this way, new players aren't going to do that they'll level properly through the various stages, hell the games a journey and although the end game pvp is a massive part of nc, the rest of the game shouldnt be cut out.
What you're whining of? I think it's fun when 10/10 mob instantly kills you when you're 0/2, don't you?
In all honesty - I can't see what the issue is (though im sure when i have a play in 2.2 I may do)
As a /10 runner you shouldn't be taking on mobs /+20 ranks above you and swatting them away like flies, or whats the point of having really low level dungeons?
In NC you have alwards progressed (ignoring noob mc5) from roaches, to rats, to plants, then to melee mutants, up to nail gun/rifle ones, then mutant captains, monks, standard aggressor's, then to aggressor captains and butchees and beyond.
It seems people really want to push for a jump from roaches to aggressor captains, as yes its a very fast way to level - especially with a ppu, but look at it this way, new players aren't going to do that they'll level properly through the various stages, hell the games a journey and although the end game pvp is a massive part of nc, the rest of the game shouldnt be cut out.
evs, if what you call "the rest of the game" - and i guess you speak about "leveling" - is not really funny, why insist by making it 3 times longer ?
All appologies, no personal insults were intended. I'm just very unhappy with 2.2 and the lack of customer recognition.
evs, if what you call "the rest of the game" - and i guess you speak about "leveling" - is not really funny, why insist by making it 3 times longer ?
I find levelling fun, always did - its part and parcel of the game.
Its not that exciting for those that have done it several times before - but thats every game.
For new players, they shouldnt be brought in and powerlevelled (which is effectively what you want), a player should not be soloing aggressor captains within an hour of play - in short, a /10 player should not be able to kill /30 mobs solo, or if they can it should take a large amount of time and cost to that player.
NC isn't just capped player pvp - some mob balancing is (from what ive read) out at the moment, but i never agreed with newbies getting such an easy ride and missing so much of the low level content its plain wrong.
KK are obviously trying to utilise the lower level areas for new players - and why not? NC is not roaches > aggy captains > warbots, and it never should be that way.
Correction, nc is only capped char pvp, solely because of Law Enforcement.
If you would remove those, you might actually see some low lvl pvp every once in a while.
Edited, realized what you said but the above statement still stands strong ;)
i think if you just removed the le then it would be noob pking all day long, that's why you'd need to implement some rank based protection, like not being able to attack a char 15 lvls or more below you. then you would be correct i'm pretty much sure.
i think if you just removed the le then it would be noob pking all day long, that's why you'd need to implement some rank based protection, like not being able to attack a char 15 lvls or more below you. then you would be correct i'm pretty much sure.
Fuck that idea mate :P the rank protection is what ruined alot of games for me
:P
i just don't get the joy of ganking an 0/3. you might as well hunt roaches, the only difference being that the roach doesn't quit nc because it's impossible for him to lvl up to sthing stronger and much more violent like e.g. a black roach :p
Correction, nc is only capped char pvp, solely because of Law Enforcement.
If you would remove those, you might actually see some low lvl pvp every once in a while.
Edited, realized what you said but the above statement still stands strong ;)
Sorry but im unsure of the correllation between /10 runners killing mobs 20 ranks above them easily and low level pvp without law enforcers.
As far as I could tell the thread was on about mobs doing too much damage at certain levels and forcing players to kill weaker mobs instead (which takes longer as the higher the enemy rank the more xp etc)
Some players want to be fully capped with minimal effort within days to take part in what they see as the most important part of the game i.e capped character pvp
Which is understandable for those who already have a capped char and don't want to go through the pain of levelling another (or more), but for new players I dont think they should blaze through content and miss a lot of the game hence why I support the current change for 'newbie levelling'.
I don't see what bearing having an LE in or not has on this?
Aye im not too fond of ganking noobs, but they do get on my tits if they start badmouthing you for sitting in their leveling spot helping your noob friend to level =/
ya that's true, but i'd rather have ten times the population than having to wait a couple of days b4 killing some peeps i don't like.
@evs : i understand what you mean. What you mean is in fact that NC needs more population. So players could find team to level faster :)
But if you level solo, you'll have just to prepare a lot of cafeïne.
-EDIT- be coherent is a good thing , but pop should be coherent with the game context and PvE mechanism : low pop = easier mobs. what do you think ?
I think it would be an excellent idea if KK boosted the amount of xp you make while in a team (just something to make it worthwhile over solo), this would help with the settling in process of 2.2 immensely.
Yes thinking that way, it certainly is a double edged sword :)
Low population and slow levelling will turn away players, but also easy levelling and reaching 'the end' often leaves players bored and with little to do - its a fine balance that needs to be struck, but players shouldnt skip content due to rapid levelling nor get bored grinding the same mob over and over.
Hmmmm....well i've just tested a small measure of PvE. I went to take out the malfunctioning WB outside TH, this is because i took the same guy out 2 days ago when i had no PA and NOTHING in my resists (except force which was 50). When i tried this the other day i took him out easily with v.little damage to myself.
Today i tried the same malfunctioning WB with 20 in all my resists (and 50 in pierce and force) and with my PA and improved bone enforcements. With the same gun i took 1/4 of his health b4 he killed me with 3 shots.
I dnt know if this is a bug or how it should be but it concerns me as it's part of the BT epics to kill one of these. How are ppl supposed to do this epic if thats what it does to me? lol
It doesn't bother me personally too much as i rarely PvE solo, im normally in a team or rhinoing but just thought i'd give my 2 cents! :D
Btw im a pistol spy at 47/49
sanityislost
13-03-07, 04:53
Just my 2 cents.
I think most of us can agree that the endgame for NC is pvp. leveling is just
something we do to learn the basics of our class, the real game doesnt start till
we are out there killing each other. Granted you can do that as a low lvl but its
not as fun, mostly your the one dead.
The old way of leveling was decent its wasnt perfect but it did the job of
teaching the basics. Making people have to spend longer leveling isnt going to
help the game....its just going to drive people away because it takes to damn
long to get to the endgame pvp. if anything the time it takes to lvl should be
shorter than it was in 2.1.
SiL ..:..
Lifewaster
13-03-07, 05:08
I think it really is much too hard still, I tested a rank 55/40 in agressors lost half my health before I killed 1 mob...then no reward.....these are rank 28 mobs
Todays patch reduced their health, I can see that it takes not much dmg to kill them, but my TL 25 energy halo (which rendered me rank 55) was barely adequate. dealing 30 dmg a hit.
Using a lower TL 12 weapons to actually have a combat rank low enough (38)to hunt them, resulted in just 7 dmg a hit..5 times slower killing speed vs a mob that would have you dead 2-3 times over by then......
########
What is needed is a patch to boost (at least triple) the dmg output for the lower TL weapons from tl 1 to TL 30.....
.....otherwise I worry we will rapidly lose all our new noobs
6stringsamurai
13-03-07, 11:39
:mad: u think agressors are bad try the spider bots in j02 not to mention wbs if you get unlucky and have one spawn behind you your screwed,
Yes thinking that way, it certainly is a double edged sword :)
Low population and slow levelling will turn away players, but also easy levelling and reaching 'the end' often leaves players bored and with little to do - its a fine balance that needs to be struck, but players shouldnt skip content due to rapid levelling nor get bored grinding the same mob over and over.
If you get bored of end-game, you get bored of NC. Nearly the entire game is based around end-game pvp (besides tradeskilling, which you also have to be high lvl to be effective at).
I agree completly, making the game into a large boring grind never helps please make PVE back to how it was in 2.1 that was the perfect balance.
@hatmankh - honestly, we get the picture.
N
And your going to change PVE back to how it was?
And your going to change PVE back to how it was?
No, but we may well adjust the way it is now (though that's not my decision to make).
N
well today i had a REAL go at mobs.
First off, my set up. I have 20 on all resists (except piercing and force which are 50) Im a pistol spy at 62/48 (CR obviously depending on weapon). I have first spy PA and generally wear the Heavy Kevlar Belt but change it depending on what im fighting, all my other armor is the 'good' battle armor. I use TT epic pistol with Flazer. Have about 112 p-c, 83 t-c and 121 wep.
First off i tried the WB's at F 08 in the house with a friend. Although the WB's undoubtedly do more damage it wasn't so bad that we were killed str8 away (or at all), aslong as we used things for cover we were fine. We didnt find that they took noticeably more damage to kill and the new idea with shooting their 'armor' off is great! I started of doing two lots of 68 dmg per-shot and end up doing about 2 lots of 115 dmg per shot.
Then we went to MB and J 01 and tried all mutants, preachers, aggies, those big guys that lob grenades at you (i forget their name!) and launchers.
We found the same again. That there's no doubt that they all do more damage and there's no way we can go about shooting like crazy as b4 in 2.1, but aslong as we used cover and pulled back every now and then we were fine. The cash from killing them is ALOT lower but that isnt a problem as i looted all the launchers and just from looting Tronik parts, any filter hearts and malformed brains i made about 50-60k in about 30-35mins.
And just to say that for most the time, altho i went to MB with a friend, he was off doing other thing so i was on my own alot.
So my general evaluation is that, yes it IS alot harder now, but not impossible. Make sure you loot, use cover and u SHUD be fine.
However, these are my experiences and other people may find it different.
Edit: Also i got xp from killing the launchers and WB's
They haven't actually made combat harder it just takes longer to kill something if I have to post a fraps video of me shooting a cyclops with a gatlin cannon on full auto then I will.
well today i had a REAL go at mobs.
First off, my set up. I have 20 on all resists (except piercing and force which are 50) Im a pistol spy at 62/48 (CR obviously depending on weapon). I have first spy PA and generally wear the Heavy Kevlar Belt but change it depending on what im fighting, all my other armor is the 'good' battle armor. I use TT epic pistol with Flazer. Have about 112 p-c, 83 t-c and 121 wep.
First off i tried the WB's at F 08 in the house with a friend. Although the WB's undoubtedly do more damage it wasn't so bad that we were killed str8 away (or at all), aslong as we used things for cover we were fine. We didnt find that they took noticeably more damage to kill and the new idea with shooting their 'armor' off is great! I started of doing two lots of 68 dmg per-shot and end up doing about 2 lots of 115 dmg per shot.
Then we went to MB and J 01 and tried all mutants, preachers, aggies, those big guys that lob grenades at you (i forget their name!) and launchers.
We found the same again. That there's no doubt that they all do more damage and there's no way we can go about shooting like crazy as b4 in 2.1, but aslong as we used cover and pulled back every now and then we were fine. The cash from killing them is ALOT lower but that isnt a problem as i looted all the launchers and just from looting Tronik parts, any filter hearts and malformed brains i made about 50-60k in about 30-35mins.
And just to say that for most the time, altho i went to MB with a friend, he was off doing other thing so i was on my own alot.
So my general evaluation is that, yes it IS alot harder now, but not impossible. Make sure you loot, use cover and u SHUD be fine.
However, these are my experiences and other people may find it different.
Edit: Also i got xp from killing the launchers and WB's
Mata,
Here is my suggestion to your spy, since spies now can be REAL tough cookies to break ;):
First take a look carefully at ALL the armor that is available. And I mean ALL, including psi armor, which give nice energy+fire resists. Look particularly at ion underware too, as it give xray and more energy ;)
Then take a look in armor again in THN, in Brammers site, where he lists with precision what you can get. With a balanced set of armor, abd the correct use of nanites you can kill even a WB with just a little cover as pistol spy. Rifle Spies have it too easy anyway. Mix armor types to help with various resists, or focus in specific areas, but take care to get even resists in all body areas.
I had a look at the really low lvl PvE today since i rolled a melee Tank so i can level with my friends who wish to try NC out for the 30 days (Once again, a HUGE thanks to the guys at account@neocron.com for their quick answers and helpful atitudes, adn to KK for giving the 30 Day game time to old Trial accounts as well)
First off the bat i went to the little basement in pepper park-1 (under the GoGu by the terminals) ok, the mobs DID do more damage than they used to and i did less damage than I used to, but the XP and leveling was fine, and by sacrificing resist Force / Piercing i could quickly get my damage up, this part has become more of a challenge since you cant just eat a medkit and then outheal the little buggers anymore.
So off to Sewers lvl 1 and then down under that to the beggers and the Giant Diseased Rats and whatnot, its a lot harder because of the mob consentration but the XP / leveling was also great and by collecting trash i quickly made 30k+ on a 0/8 charecter.
So, so far i cant see a lot to complain about, yes its harder, yes the rewards are pretty damn low, yes mobds deal more damage.
All this just means that you have to work that harder.
About the damage dealt by players to mobs i find that by speccing a lot of weapon-skill you can easily do great damage and kill mobs just as fast as in 2.1, you just have to remember that you need MORE weaponskill than in 2.1 to deal great damage.
Of course this is only the low level part so far, but i dont feel that noobs have it as hard as people say.
- Napalm
Gulinborsti
14-03-07, 00:37
They haven't actually made combat harder it just takes longer to kill something if I have to post a fraps video of me shooting a cyclops with a gatlin cannon on full auto then I will.
Well, that's not completely correct.
I did a lot of hunting today myself, mostly fire mobs with my capped H-C tank.
I can't remember when I got killed the last time by those creatures in 2.1. But it happended today after I thougth I got into the new powers of them, after I killed lots of them. Suddenly I dropped dead because I got surprised by one extra mob that turned up suddenly and I couldn't take cover immediately.
Mobs not only need more time to get killed, they also need less time to kill you! If you need to fight them at point blank it's a lot harder than before.
Mobs need a fix, only a little tweaking:
*) more XP
*) more money
*) less HP
*) less power
Only very small tweaks, but atm it's cruel.
And of course I am talking about soloing.
Your right they are small tweaks but their effect is tremondous, if they do make these changes we will be seeing a lot more of these:
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D and a lot less of these: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
The fact that these changes are now soo much easier to implement brings even more reason why they should take the course of action suggested by many, unfortunately most people are just suggesting it and whining in HELP chat [ edited ]
Mata,
Here is my suggestion to your spy, since spies now can be REAL tough cookies to break ;):
First take a look carefully at ALL the armor that is available. And I mean ALL, including psi armor, which give nice energy+fire resists. Look particularly at ion underware too, as it give xray and more energy ;)
Then take a look in armor again in THN, in Brammers site, where he lists with precision what you can get. With a balanced set of armor, abd the correct use of nanites you can kill even a WB with just a little cover as pistol spy. Rifle Spies have it too easy anyway. Mix armor types to help with various resists, or focus in specific areas, but take care to get even resists in all body areas.
Well thanx for the advice matey, you seem to be constantly helping me out with game stuff atm! lol
Although i haven't really had much trouble with PvE it is always helpful to learn about decent armour. Just to clear up tho, Other than belts there are different vests/neck/trousers etc that offer different protection other than force/piercing? (bearing in mind i only have something like 30 str).
Whenever i have checked for armour the only stuff i can find that i can wear are Battle and Kevlar armour for neck/head/vest/trousers/boots. If i can get this stuff, where from?
Also, i constantly use Brammers THN (possibly the MOST useful site for NC and congrats on getting official NC fansite mate!) and i wasn't sure whether he had updated the item database yet. It's basically what im waiting for as i need new implants and armour.
Thnx
Well thanx for the advice matey, you seem to be constantly helping me out with game stuff atm! lol
Although i haven't really had much trouble with PvE it is always helpful to learn about decent armour. Just to clear up tho, Other than belts there are different vests/neck/trousers etc that offer different protection other than force/piercing? (bearing in mind i only have something like 30 str).
Whenever i have checked for armour the only stuff i can find that i can wear are Battle and Kevlar armour for neck/head/vest/trousers/boots. If i can get this stuff, where from?
Also, i constantly use Brammers THN (possibly the MOST useful site for NC and congrats on getting official NC fansite mate!) and i wasn't sure whether he had updated the item database yet. It's basically what im waiting for as i need new implants and armour.
Thnx
Well, I just checked his site, and it's not yet in. Anyway. Spies armor isnt, cant be strength based. Look for either Dex/Int or Psi based armor.
Psi armor you take a look in pp3, where there are 3 places with psi smugglers. 2 opposite the old crahn church place and another one by pepperpark exit GR if you are pro/anti, FA sector if you are anti
Dribble Joy
14-03-07, 18:34
Kevlar and battle should be from pretty much any armour seller. The smuggler in MB sells all levels of both.
In the long term, kevlar is probably the way to go for spies. full kevlar, heavy fire belt, PA and then spec a lot of energy (higher resists are very powerful, 100 resist is about the same as 60 resist and 60 armour).
OK, i know of the psi smugglers in PP, only been there at the beginning when i bought the heal and deflector.
I will have a look and check them out. I know this is out of topic but do you have any suggestions for my set-up regarding armour? perhaps PM me? Just so u know im also thinking of taking my LE out soonish. If u cud, that wud be uber helpful!
Kevlar and battle should be from pretty much any armour seller. The smuggler in MB sells all levels of both.
In the long term, kevlar is probably the way to go for spies. full kevlar, heavy fire belt, PA and then spec a lot of energy (higher resists are very powerful, 100 resist is about the same as 60 resist and 60 armour).
WTF are you talking about DJ???? full kevlar??? wtf!!
what about energy? he will get 100 resists from a con 40 spy?
what will it be left for fire after that?
Dont speak for something you dont know...
spies need, kevlar, psi, inqui and hvy fire belt
omfg your telling me pve already was pointed out to being messedup before it was released and KK did nothing..
I'm a tad confused would mod mind closing this thread. Looks like almost everyone voted to making easier but KK decided its time to make harder and whatever we do or say will not change it.
Mr. Uplift Mofo
19-03-07, 03:29
I support the devs choice to make PvE harder: this way people will have to team up together when levelling.
Also this changes make PPUs a vital class for your survival in any kind of PvE.
Archtemplar
19-03-07, 03:44
I support the devs choice to make PvE harder: this way people will have to team up together when levelling.
Also this changes make PPUs a vital class for your survival in any kind of PvE.
Cuz we all know ppu's are just waiting everywheres for us to level. Lame. Not everyone has the desire to play during peek hours (which is 2pm-4pm here). I prefer PvP when theres more players, PvE when the PvP is slow and I can level my characters. The idea that we need to tack a PPU to us is retarded beyond belief. When i want to level I want to level, not dick around on the idiot/chat/help channel in-game looking for a ppu.
I support the devs choice to make PvE harder: this way people will have to team up together when levelling.
Also this changes make PPUs a vital class for your survival in any kind of PvE.
Yes but I mean even once this month trial is over and were back to 10% if that who do we teamup with? I mean there going have force germans + english one server and then were not going be able end up understanding each other and then ends up in a gank war lol
Mr. Uplift Mofo
19-03-07, 06:07
Cuz we all know ppu's are just waiting everywheres for us to level. Lame. Not everyone has the desire to play during peek hours (which is 2pm-4pm here). I prefer PvP when theres more players, PvE when the PvP is slow and I can level my characters. The idea that we need to tack a PPU to us is retarded beyond belief. When i want to level I want to level, not dick around on the idiot/chat/help channel in-game looking for a ppu.
I think Archtemplar post explain very well a big problem of Neocron: the fragmentation of its playerbase.
And in some ways I understand people like Archtemplar: before 2.2, the PvE was generally based upon solo grinding. Grab your char, go in the wastelands and level all alone. Too easy.
Now the devs changed their toy and with 2.2 when you PvE is strongly recommended to have a team if you don't want to die.
And what's wrong with playin' in a team with other players? Nothing, it's just that some people refuse to ADAPT to new game mechanics and limit themselves to board whining.
Neocron is a mmofps and like any other online game it is meant to bring people together, socialize and have fun. After all, if I would hate so much to be in a team of players I would go playin' an offline single player game instead of Neocron.
I find it fun search for a team and then play with others, someone else consider it "dick around on the idiot/chat/help channel in-game looking for a ppu". ;)
Try a bit harder to adapt, hang around in teams when levelling and you'll find all the beauty of Neocron 2.2.
From experience, I can tell you it is not easy to find a team when server population is at 1-2%. That is what it has been during my playing time and, I suspect, what it will return to after it goes back to pay-to-beta-test.
I support the devs choice to make PvE harder: this way people will have to team up together when levelling.
Also this changes make PPUs a vital class for your survival in any kind of PvE.The problem with this is the population isn't high enough to support this forced type of gameplay. [removed]
Archtemplar
19-03-07, 06:27
Oh dont get me wrong, i LIKE leveling with people, its just that the usual leveling places are either wrought with high level mission whores, or no one at all. And believe me, you say you can find teams all the time in 2.2, but just wait until the 30 days pass and we're back to 7-12% people. The wastes will be as lonely as they always were, and the leveling should reflect that.
Or maybe, just maybe, for some of us the soloable content was the reason to play this game in the first place. Drop in, do a quick mission for stress reliever and drop out. I don't want to keep playing for all night every time I log in. That is what joint sessions with corp members were for.
Eternal Pink
19-03-07, 21:23
Its also gonna screw the game economy soon since soloing caves/warbots for items/rares is now much harder which means less cash moving about in game
hmm anyone feel like drawing up a petition on one them sites... Will all include a image petition url in our sigs...
hmm anyone feel like drawing up a petition on one them sites... Will all include a image petition url in our sigs...
Lol, it doesn't work like that :) let's just wait they have time to fix it ...
What makes you think they even want to fix it? Maybe they think its not even broken so they won't be doing any fixing.
Chuck Norris
25-03-07, 05:03
Teaming up is great unfortunately now close to caped chars are farming launcher cyclopes due to PvE changes and take all the exp... and the way exp is with this being a skill based game... good luck lv'ling a ppu up now post 2.2 how is he going to get any kind of psi experience now that apus have been pretty much nerfed out of the game. There needs to be some way to get psi exp from you healing a tank/spy/PE who uses str and dex skills to get exp (if you want to force grouping). Some thing needs a change! :angel:
Might have to move back to Neptune (When it's back up) with it's 500% increase on xp :angel:
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