View Full Version : Lower damage in PvP?
There have been requests to lower the damage dealt (by everyone) in PvP lately. As you may know, lowering the damage in PvP across the board is easily achieved now thanks to the changes implemented in Evolution 2.2. So we can easily lower the damage by a certain percentage and adjust it if it doesn't feel right.
Therefore we'd like to hear your opinions on the topic. Feel free to elaborate why you picked a certain choice.
Its fine to me. Any lower and its likley that someone with a PPU backing them up could outheal a single other player. At the moment a solo player can take down a PPUed for runner, which isn't eacsy but it is nice that is possible.
Rather than adjusting damage wholesale, some weapons just need tweaking. Laserbeams are bugged, leading to apparently too-high damage. Rapidfire weapons are largley speaking too weak and need buffs (see people, its not that certain things are overpowered, its often that others are UNDERPOWERED). Drones like the PN and rocket drones are way out of whack. But damage overall is quite reasonable. Fights last about the length of my PE's shield cast, which seems sensible. Why change it?
Along with balancing (or fixing :p) the weapons that Cmaster has mentioned, I would like to see lower damage and faster firing rates, while possibly increasing the runspeed a bit too. So basically, keep the balancing bonuses of 2.2, while keeping the attributes that made Neocron fun to play.
Im up for 5% i would like fights to last a little longer
It's only certain weapons that really need their damage changing, but it would be nice to see fights last longer, so I'm going to vote yes.
I had a fight a few days ago that literally lasted less than 5 seconds between the first and last shots fired. I was at low hp when it was over too.
I do like the PvP changes in 2.2 it's actually nice to be able to fight for a while, while before it was usually a case of BAM! BAM! dead.
Overall I think the balance is just about right, but I've not had a proper fight since 162 came out, so maybe my view will change.
So my choice is currently no, but I may change my mind. *Holds back vote*
Edit: If I did vote for Yes it would most be 5%. 10% and 20% feels way too much.
Another point - a lot of people's con is in a bit of a state right now. Look at NC2 as a whole - con setups will improve as time goes on, and people will get tougher. Combat lasts plenty long enough as it is. Don't return us to PPU-beats all of 2.1 with weaker damages. Fix the couple of guns that are out of line, then ignore the whinges of those whose con is below par (after all, with lower damage they would just lose slower).
What Cmaster says.What i said.
:lol:
Basically what Cmonster said, overall pvp damage is fine with a few exceptions that need tweaking.
ashley watts
30-03-07, 17:53
Im not going to vote atm, "Should damage be lowered" is not a balance question :p, different weapons need to be lowered not all together. Some weapons are perfect some are stupid. :angel:
Tyler_Durdon
30-03-07, 18:30
i think the dmg after the patch is ok !
and btw ... omg mr. watts :D
awkward silence
30-03-07, 18:30
I think PE shields need to be upped a tad and some weapons should not do so much damage. Aswell as drones need to be heavily adjusted.
While those are a tad of topic, they are still revevant as i concider them to be a a part of why i vote No.
Too many things that i want see changed first... and i like faster fights... more adrenaline rush for me.
Seraphin[69]
30-03-07, 19:07
ATM only a few weapons do a lot of damage
Rayguns, ion shotguns, and WOC guns in general (atm I'm thnking about the freeman gun that can kill almost every ppu with holy heal/heal sanctum, buffs, shields and psi shield)
The others are fine imo
All this talk of lowering the damage on weapons has just blown over the fact that, lowering damage on weapons is going to make PvE alot more difficult.
Did no one think of this?
On the whole, lowering damage by say 5% would a good thing, but something would need to be done to cover the impliactions that this sort of change would have on PvE.
@ Fega - nope, they can adjust PvP and PvE damages independently now, and that is what they propose here.
I do hope though that anybody bitching about being killed by an ionic shotgun or a creed doesn't think that voting yes for this fixes anything - those weapons that are overpowered or underpowered already will still be just as out of line by the same amount. Its just that they'll all be weaker.
All this talk of lowering the damage on weapons has just blown over the fact that, lowering damage on weapons is going to make PvE alot more difficult.
Did no one think of this?
On the whole, lowering damage by say 5% would a good thing, but something would need to be done to cover the impliactions that this sort of change would have on PvE.
"Lower damage in PvP"
wtf is this poll.. Go play pokemon Thanatos!
i say no too i think its just fine as it is. perhaps people should be looking at con set ups more then damage.
I think PvP damage rate (aside from the few obviously unbalanced individual cases mentioned) is pretty much spot on.
A lot of the people who are dropping fast have truly godawful set-ups, and should not be used as the standard benchmark. Others with more considered setups last just fine.
awkward silence
30-03-07, 20:56
I think PvP damage rate (aside from the few obviously unbalanced individual cases mentioned) is pretty much spot on.
A lot of the people who are dropping fast have truly godawful set-ups, and should not be used as the standard benchmark. Others with more considered setups last just fine.
Couldn't agree more :p
Lifewaster
30-03-07, 22:16
Hard to say:
A 20% drop would certainly help ppl vs the current extremely high dmg weapons, eg:SH/PN/Creed.
Best solution I'd say is to implement a layered reduction. 5% for tl <50, 10 for tl75, 15% for tl 100, and 20% for tl 115
Now, its true this will slow down some fights, but lets be realistic, its still not going to make ppl godmode with a ppu.....lets remember 2-3 DDs can currently out dmg a ppu self heal while hes making 92% resist, so any other player with at best 70% resist is still going to die.
So it would for now make some classes survive a little longer.....instead of 20 ppl dying to one particle nemesis, or 10 apus dying to one SH , etc.
Regarding APUS in particular a lowered dmg for all, "may" actually make them semi-viable again since they could actually live long enough to deal their supposedly stronger dmg.....etc
Nerf PPU heal a bit, lower PvP dmg by 20% so it's about skill instead of item combat. :mad:
Dribble Joy
31-03-07, 00:34
Don't see much need to later overall PvP damage, it's more a case of cirtain weapons doing too much, mainly the beam weapons.
I miss long fights, so i'm up for a general pvp damage decrease.
However, a more simple and probably more appreciated fix would be to increase runspeeds by some factor. Yes this will encourage more clipping, but thats already easily accomplished so let the dumbasses who like to do that continue. Instead of reducing damage this effectively allows for more people missing and more heal time, and if they're good and hit you the full amount still, they deserve to deal the most damage.
A lot of the people who are dropping fast have truly godawful set-ups, and should not be used as the standard benchmark.
We were both PEs. That explains it.
Apocalypsox
31-03-07, 02:34
i said 20 but i think 15. I think 15% reduced straight across the board, and adjust it from there by feedback.
Praetorian
31-03-07, 02:34
PE's seems abit mad at the moment... Especially with the xbow its just pewpew goodbye. o_O
I'd like fights to last longer, especially if you play an APU fights can be over in seconds with you as the losing part. My setup is probably quite bad, but with PPU buffs, normal psi monk armor... a PE with xbow did as much damage to me, as i did to him with my fire apoc... except his RoF is slightly higher :p
Maybe something was wrong there, but imho PE's seem abit over the top...
Could be a select few weapons that needs a tweak downwards, not a general reduction.
I voted yes cause I to have been in fights where it was just a matter of who got off the first shot. This is especially bad when people prey on people dealing in shops gogos, ctyterms, zoning and poor newbies who took out thier law chip to low. its one thing to be a sniper its another thing to shoot vulnerable people who cannot defend themselves.
Lowering damage will simply reduce one or 2 shot kills. and the dishonorable sort. Healing/shields/buffs/pets should also be lowered in PVP by a similar amount to answer the people who complain they cant kill the ppu. Posibly if people thought theyd have a chance to shoot back more people would participate in pvp that neocron does so well.
More hits=more skill. Overall damage should be lowered a little. I'm more concerned about certain guns thb. RoLH for example
why would u wanna decrease damage ? this is jsut gonna have people have ppus on their ass AGAIN like it was in 2.1.
ATM ppus is not THAT important cuz u can like c said kill someone whos got a ppu with him with SOME luck and skill.
i like fast paced pvp its exiting. i dont wanna be running around for 5 mins shooting at each other til finnally someone drops that so fooking booring if i wanted that i woulda played FOMK.
decrease damage and ppu will be unkillable AGAIN its hard enough to kill them as is.
this is prolly the worst idea ( almost) in the history of NC
awkward silence
31-03-07, 11:01
I dont like where the thread on this matter is going... especially on the german forums.
Please dont make this game worse KK.
If you lower the PVP damage, PPU's might be able to overheal many guns, then this game will be become as it was in 2.1.
bah... im not making a threat here but im barely staying. That above thing is a gamebreaker for me. I already though that i wouldn't re-activate because of the serious bugs and the general more grinding that this game has been going towards. This might just make my position worse in that matter.
Theres more things i dont like, that like. More new bugs from balancing and then when PVP is finally out of the PPU's frim grip im very sad to see its heading there again.
There has also been many decidions that KK has made that i dont like but could live with, just that there are too many.
Lifewaster
31-03-07, 11:23
The argument regarding killing/unkilling PPUs is missleading, if a DMG tweak results in unkillable PPUs , then PPU self shields can easily be lowered to compensate.
So trying to concentrate on the other issues.
Do OP combatants (non-ppus) die too fast ? or how fast is too fast ?
From what I see recently , everyone bar ppus/stealthers is dying hella fast... and the recent op fights I'm seeing turn more and more into stealther/droner fests. Tanks are semi-viable as long as theres enough of them (2-3) to focus fire on their de-cloaked attackers , while APUS have been relegated to an end-game only role of hiding untill everything bar the enemy PPUs have died , then coming out to help drop the anti-buffed PPUS with their Fire-apocs.
It feels like bam-bam-dead , vs bam-bam-stealthed(to return in 60 seconds), and is favoring stealthers more and more........as 2 stealthers can easily drop a runner then re-stealth before either of them are dropped etc....
Dont forget drones also, a dmg nerf could only help against the current Particle Nemesis problem...since the key to surviving drones is to out heal their dmg , with dmging them the lesser priority.
RIGHT lifewaster
and you have to think about all the newbies, who doesnt have the ultimate imp setting, the best weapons and so on.
the survive like 3 seconds in pp3... there is no learn effect anymore.
The argument regarding killing/unkilling PPUs is missleading, if a DMG tweak results in unkillable PPUs , then PPU self shields can easily be lowered to compensate.
Its not kiling PPUs that is the concern. Its killing PPU-Buffed Damage Dealers. At the moment, my PE can drop one, just if he lands pretty much every hit. If I miss much then they easily outheal. You nerf damage and that becomes pretty much impossible. You nerf heals and that A: screws with class balance again and B: makes PvE even harder still.
ALso, who is finding combat too fast, really? My fights last quite long enough that I often have to worry about shields running. ANd nerfing damage overall will not solve the problem of certain overpowered weapons.
Praetorian
31-03-07, 12:41
i like fast paced pvp its exiting.
So stop hovering around your own UGs like flies around shit.
The fact is noone is unkillable with a pocket PPU like it was in the past, a slight damage reduction is needed (at least for certain weapons) - and it wont make people immortal like you moan about. I don't want to GR after a 10 second fight, thats just stupid.
The fact is noone is unkillable with a pocket PPU like it was in the past, a slight damage reduction is needed (at least for certain weapons)
So you want Libbys to actually not even hurt people at all? Because thats what you'll get with this wholesale nerf. Once again - bringing weapons into line, so that the overpowered ones don't crush people and the underpowered ones actually work, yes. Nerf across the board - no, it fixes nothing. If, after all weapons are balanced out, people are still finding PvP too quikc (and I thought the problem with 2.2 was too slow?) THEN perhaps consider a small overall PvP damage nerf.
The problem with these certain overpowered weapons is the high damage, because things like reloading times, that are taken account of the balancing, doesn't come into effect as much as considered.
The fear of PPUs overhealing the lowered damage is without cause, there is enough space I think, and even if they have to adjust the PPU heal, which affects PvE as well, the Mobs can be easily adapted now.
There is simply more thrill in longer fights, and you will need more skill to shoot, heal, take boosters, antidrugs, medikits etc., than just shoot or die.
One: if you don't worry about taking medkits, stams, healing etc at the moment, I see why you die quickly.
The problem with these certain overpowered weapons is the high damage,
Two: These certain overpowered weapons will actually become more overpowered with this nerf. YOu don't see why? OK, lets explain:
Say Weapon A, that is currently somewhat overpowered does 10000 dmg/min
Weapon B, that is about where it should be for its TL (the same as A) does 7000 dmg/min.
Now, healing rate is let us suggest perhaps 2000 hp/min?
So as things are, Weapon A has an effective damage of 8000/min, while weapon B is effectivley 5000/min. Weapon B is 62% as effective as weapon A. (Or weapon A is 160% as effective as Weapon B, your choice as which way to perceive it).
So we nerf PvP damage by 20% overall.
Weapon A is now at 8000 (6000 effective)
Weapon B is now at 5600 (3600 effective)
Weapon B is now only 60% as effective as weapon A (or Weapon A is 166% as effective as weapon B).
Sure, it isn't a big change, but we exagerate the differences again. And if we reduce the healing rate of all classes equally, we once again make PvE harder, we also shorten fights again, and make NC in general more frustrating as you have to sit around for longer.
Lifewaster
31-03-07, 13:58
Its not kiling PPUs that is the concern. Its killing PPU-Buffed Damage Dealers. At the moment, my PE can drop one, just if he lands pretty much every hit. If I miss much then they easily outheal. You nerf damage and that becomes pretty much impossible. You nerf heals and that A: screws with class balance again and B: makes PvE even harder still.
ALso, who is finding combat too fast, really? My fights last quite long enough that I often have to worry about shields running. ANd nerfing damage overall will not solve the problem of certain overpowered weapons.
Well, perhaps PEs are just right Vs one DD+PPU in the current system, but at OP fights with the higher TL wepons , I think ppl are likely dying too fast.
But think what a 20% reduction means in your situation.......its basically the same as if you were missing 1 in 5 shots with wyatt...is that really enough to let someone outheal.
Also , considering the "overpowered" weapons, if wyatt does 100 dmg/sec and Creed does 500 dmg/sec ....then 20% is only a loss of 20 dmg to you, while its a loss of 100 to creed... so I think it could be a worthwhile tradeoff.
Well, perhaps PEs are just right Vs one DD+PPU in the current system, but at OP fights with the higher TL wepons , I think ppl are likely dying too fast.
But think what a 20% reduction means in your situation.......its basically the same as if you were missing 1 in 5 shots with wyatt...is that really enough to let someone outheal.
Also , considering the "overpowered" weapons, if wyatt does 100 dmg/sec and Creed does 500 dmg/sec ....then 20% is only a loss of 20 dmg to you, while its a loss of 100 to creed... so I think it could be a worthwhile tradeoff.
As I already showed, the loss is greater to the less powerful weapons than the more powerful ones. Reducing overall damage only exagerates the existing imbalances. And 20% is a big, big hit.
Lifewaster
31-03-07, 14:43
As I already showed, the loss is greater to the less powerful weapons than the more powerful ones. Reducing overall damage only exagerates the existing imbalances. And 20% is a big, big hit.
Well , your looking specifically at healing vs dmg thresholds , and the loss is only greater in that specific context where your struggling to reach a point where a lower TL weapon can outdmg a healing rate..its true by lowering dmg steadily we would reach a point where a PE could no longer drop a PPU-ed runner before we reach that point for a APU/SPY , but I'm absolutely sure it wont happen at 20%.
Obviously if we lower dmg , the TL point at which a weapon cannot outdmg a heal becomes lower.... but boost dmg enough and PPUs with TL 35 rifles could own everybody.
[F6]Knight
31-03-07, 14:48
i might start a riot here but maybe KK should find a way to make ppu buffs less effective whenever they are absorbing damage from enemy players
so they still stay as effective as before in pve
because what seems to be the big problem here is that fights with ppu buffs can take a very long time whereas fights without ppu buffs are over really really fast
so if its possible to reduce ppu buff effectiveness for pvp only then a pvp dmg nerf would be vadid to make unbuffed fights last a bit longer without making buffed fights last forever.
but the main thing here would be the distinct diffirence between buffs strenght in pvp and pve. because just reducing buffstrenght for both would make pve way too hard.
Knight']i might start a riot here but maybe KK should find a way to make ppu buffs less effective whenever they are absorbing damage from enemy players
so they still stay as effective as before in pve
From what Life says, thats the opposite of what we need - he claims in mass PvP (op fights) where everybdoy does have PPU buffs, people are dropping too quickly.
im all for some wepaons get slightly less damage
like ray weapons the freeman gun like CREED etc.
but im not all for us running around for 5 mins shooting each other before someone finally dies ,its plain stupid.
someone ppu buffed and healed is killable now with a LOT of skills and luck but its killable, u nerf the damage and it wont, u nerf ppu shields and heals even futher and ppus will be come absolete, OR u run around shooting each other for 10 mins before u die and thus goes the fun out of the window.
now its fast IF u can aim and if u cannot u die.
btw tanks still run around shooting each other with CS for about a minute maybee ? before one of them dies it was the same as before 2.1 so i dont think overal pvp decreased time much.
u RELLY dont wanna make it so PvP is booooring.
, rather fix certain weapons so that they go inline with the Cs for instance wich is very *normal* damage now.
So stop hovering around your own UGs like flies around shit.
The fact is noone is unkillable with a pocket PPU like it was in the past, a slight damage reduction is needed (at least for certain weapons) - and it wont make people immortal like you moan about. I don't want to GR after a 10 second fight, thats just stupid.
Just hit more then the enemy and u wont have to gr out :D
If not result is gonna be the same weather they nerf damage or not , u Gr out.
One: if you don't worry about taking medkits, stams, healing etc at the moment, I see why you die quickly.
You should understand better what I said, but I should have excluded those quick to use QB-things, I just wanted to point out a certain direction.
Well, if my heal runs out infight atm, I would not recast or inject another one, if I know I can easily die in that time I loose, respectively I could kill my opponent in that time. So it works like, you prepare for fight and then keep on shooting till one dies, because there is nothing more effective. Most of the time the heal won't even run out before the fight ends.
Nobody wants everlasting fights, it's just the request on a slight dmg reduction to make especially fights without PPUs more thrilling.
I think it is a bit too early to be making such a change since, as cmaster points out, lots of people have yet to arrive at good character setups after all the upheaval 2.2 has brought. Perhaps spend a bit of time tweaking individual weapons (creed) or weapon classes (drones), but please don't go for a wholesale nerf as the knock-on effects would be unpleasant: even harder PvE (not what we want :lol: ), ppu influence increased again (it is at a nice level now), to name a couple.
Lifewaster
31-03-07, 17:04
Perhaps the best solution is to give ppl more HLT rather then any adjustment to the current DMG vs shield/healing.
All this talk of lowering the damage on weapons has just blown over the fact that, lowering damage on weapons is going to make PvE alot more difficult.
Did no one think of this?
On the whole, lowering damage by say 5% would a good thing, but something would need to be done to cover the impliactions that this sort of change would have on PvE.
gueinis
dunno if anyone else has said this yet but the poll is changing the wrong thing for the right thing, lowering the damage has too many effects on things, just boost our healthpool...
actually there would be a multiplier that just lowers pvp damage and not affect pve damage at all.
actually there would be a multiplier that just lowers pvp damage and not affect pve damage at all.
That's right but boosting our healthpools would, in addition to making pvp last a bit longer, also help us when it comes to PvE.
Praetorian
01-04-07, 20:29
im all for some wepaons get slightly less damage
like ray weapons the freeman gun like CREED etc.
Someone ppu buffed and healed is killable now with a LOT of skills and luck but its killable, u nerf the damage and it wont, u nerf ppu shields and heals even futher and ppus will be come absolete, OR u run around shooting each other for 10 mins before u die and thus goes the fun out of the window.
now its fast IF u can aim and if u cannot u die.
Just hit more then the enemy and u wont have to gr out :D
If not result is gonna be the same weather they nerf damage or not , u Gr out.
I also think certian weapons needs a nerf, but on my APU i do not miss (kinda - might not be highest damage, but i usually hit when i click) and i still get r@ped sideways by a xbow PE - EVEN if i have a PPU healing/shielding me. Its like its too easy to aim that bloody xbow. I could probably go invisible and you could still hit me. Theres quite a few weapons that seem like they autoaim, i remember being ALOT harder to hit in the past on my APU. (And no, i do not stand still either :p)
If they nerf damage, you get a chance to actually see the PE run out of ammo and he might even have to recast... 8| ;)
Dribble Joy
01-04-07, 20:40
Xbow clip is a bit mad really. I'm wondering if KK factored in the reload time into the dmg/time balancings. Judge might be OK if it didn't need to reload every 5.7 seconds (210 rpm on my Judge).
1. Start by lowering damage in pvp by 5% to see the effects of this.
2. Fix bugged weapons like the creed (which is not bugged, yet it did twice the damage of a HL rifle... against a Juggernaut 100/100)
3. Adjust PPUs interference. A ppu coupled with a a tank using the NOT overpowered creed, can well kill a team of 10 people. Only the very best pvpers stand a chance killing the tank, but this game is not all about the very best (a handful of people).
Summary by Priority: 1. Fix non-balanced guns. 2. Reduce overall pvp damage (or up the steel skin, helps pvm problems too) 3. Reduce Self-Cast sheild results by a decent factor after pvp decrease.
3. Reduce Self-Cast sheild results by a decent factor after pvp decrease.
yay let's nerf pes even more :rolleyes:
3. Reduce Self-Cast sheild results by a decent factor after pvp decrease.
WTF are u talking about?!
PEs are allready pretty fucked, and PPUs are pretty easy to kill..
Lifewaster
02-04-07, 16:39
I think I see a way this reduction could be done, without making PPUS harder to kill.
If instead a 20% steelskin is re-introduced , it could be applied to DMG taken, in turn before the shields/armor/con.
Thus the incoming dmg is reduced, but the char remains subject to the Class Resist Caps. Thus Non-PPUs can now become closer to their caps, while PPUs dont gain any benefit.
#####using a steelskin method
eg: PPU
Incoming dmg 500
20% reduction after steelskin
88% total reduction after shield
94% total reduction after armor
97% total reduction after con
Class resist cap 92% breached.....overall reduction 92%
total dmg taken = 40
#####using an across the board 20% nerf
Incoming dmg 500
Auto reduced to 400
85% reduction after shield
90% reduction after armor
92% reduction after con
Overall reduction 92%
Total dmg taken = 32
#####
You see the difference?
A 20% dmg nerf results in ppu taking 32 dmg instead of 40 , but a steelskin resist method means they retain the original 40 dmg......
But for all other classes, it will result in less dmg since no one else can reach their class resist caps...
Just a small note ... there's already an inbuilt 33% steelskin value for runners, so presumably you mean to add to that rather than reduce the overall to 20% ?
switchnine
02-04-07, 22:36
DO NOT lower the damage. As it stands it takes a capped rifle spy with a silent hunter 2-3 headshots on an unsuspecting (unbuffed) tank/monk/pe. This is way more than necessary for a sniper, lowering the sniper damage even more is going to ruin sniper combat.
Also because of the new body-section armour specs, there is now no good full body energy armour for spy. The majority of weapons deal out pure energy damage (nearly all hightech do this). It might be a nice novelty to have spy PA that give an enormous amount of xray protection, but in pvp this is near useless.
Specifics like these need to be thought about when you hear people complain about how quick they are dieing in pvp. Lowering the overall damage is just another "quick fix" that people will find fault with after a day.
there is energy underwear for spy.
there is shelter armor for spy.
there are energy resist nanits for spy.
there are enough possibilities for spy to spec energy resist.
switchnine
02-04-07, 23:06
The bonuses from PA are needed for PvP badly, so the energy underwear is out of the question. and only weak shelter is available to even a capped spy. Appart from the nanites, there is no real/effective energy resist setup for spy. And having PvP'd using nanites i don't recommend relying on them.
Anyway my point was that people are dying in PvP fast because of certain class flaws (EXAMPLE: effective spy energy resist setup is near impossible, energy being of the the two main PvP damage types). And if the overall damage is lowered its going to expand/create other class flaws (EXAMPLE: underpowered/useless sniper combat).
[Note that i wrote "example" in caps there... I dont want to get dragged into a yelling match about one class here. :) ]
Dargeshaad
02-04-07, 23:34
The bonuses from PA are needed for PvP badly, so the energy underwear is out of the question.
You gain offense with PA and loose out on defense (well PA still gives great xray but in your equation you need energy). There's plenty of succesful spies that don't use PA, just rethink your setup
erm i saw spies with really good energy resists, even when wearing a pa (was regants tho, don't know the stats).
mebbe you should just reevaluate your points distribution, as you don't need to get your main weapon on really high values. and you should use the nanites, they're way more effective than psi and allow you to be shielded better then a pe using his psi, you can additionaly shield against one damage type (in your case energy) as if having a ppu cast apd on you.
oh and on a sidenote, be sure to check out the holovests too as they are pretty nice pas now.
awkward silence
03-04-07, 13:41
Guys... go vote at the german forum too.
Apparently they want to ruin this game a bit further :(
Yeh, i really dont get the difference in the results. Why do the germans want pvp damage reduced while the rest of the world doesnt?
Weird. :lol:
Dribble Joy
03-04-07, 14:08
Who on earth are these people wanting a 20% reduction? O_o
36 + 13 + 8 = 57 > 45
most of the english people want a dmg decrease too... -.-
Dribble Joy
03-04-07, 14:11
I get the feeling both sides are voting on each other's threads....
[F6]Knight
03-04-07, 14:15
i like lifewasters idea to just increase the steel skin
that way ppu's still cant go over their cap (which they reach anyway with selfbuffs) but other classes can survive a little bit longer.
this shouldnt make any class/setup invincible in 1v1 due to weaker heals than in the old days
Yeh, i really dont get the difference in the results. Why do the germans want pvp damage reduced while the rest of the world doesnt?
Weird. :lol:
It is because ZEE germans have ZEE über-aim so all fights are finished in 3 seconds.
It is because ZEE germans have ZEE über-aim so all fights are finished in 3 seconds.
yeeehaarr
right!
question about this poll
are you including all three yes answers vs. the no, or 4 seperate ones?
because right now i see:
58 - Yes (5%, 10%, 20%)
45 - No
if you include all three
If you keep it too four than its
45 - no
9 - 5%
13 - 10%
36 - 20%
which would mean that no wins, but yet theres clearly more yes's. it's a biased poll, you should have had a simple yes or no poll and if yes won than ask the %age because had it won alot of those no's would probabaly vote for 5% instead of 20% which would win if you look at the outlook of all yes's vs. no's.
p.s. if this was mentioned previously, no i didn't read all 5 pages, and no i'm not going to.
i dont understand why there is a poll with this when PvE is much more screwed
i dont understand why there is a poll with this when PvE is much more screwed
because believe it or not some people actually pvp.
i dont understand why there is a poll with this when PvE is much more screwed
pve isnt screwed...
newb -.-
obviously those that voted 20% would even like 5% reduction lol. therefore, according to numbers those that want reduction are winning. But for me, its not just that simple. and asking for a 20% is just too much
The bonuses from PA are needed for PvP badly, so the energy underwear is out of the question. and only weak shelter is available to even a capped spy. Appart from the nanites, there is no real/effective energy resist setup for spy. And having PvP'd using nanites i don't recommend relying on them.
I recommend you reading my post on how to setup con, which is referred to a spy but also covers all characters. You can't say these things for spies. :rolleyes:
It is because ZEE germans have ZEE über-aim so all fights are finished in 3 seconds.
Good thing i'm german.
:lol:
i dont understand why there is a poll with this when PvE is much more screwed
Diese Änderung würde nur PvP betreffen. Der Modifikator tritt nur in Kraft wenn der Schaden bei einem anderen Spieler antrifft, im PvE würden die Waffen weiterhin denselben Schaden machen.
He says that these changes would only affect PvP and not PvE. Only the dmg between runners would be lowered.
switchnine
05-04-07, 14:59
I recommend you reading my post on how to setup con, which is referred to a spy but also covers all characters. You can't say these things for spies. :rolleyes:
I have read your post. It's a good guide. But it still makes no sence that spy PA gives a huge ammount of xray resist and no energy resist. I may be wrong here, but there isn't a single weapon in the game that deals xray as standard, while "a" majority of weapons deal out energy... So spys, unlike all other classes, must now give up their PA (and a brain slot according to your guide) in order to get good PvP resists? no other class has this problem. Previously spies had belts that worked for the whole body and didn't have to give up all this offence...
Anyway I am not interested in discussing spy armour. This doesn't mean I am happy about the PA situation, but I recognise that spys should be weaker than e.g. tanks anyway... but I also recognise that because they are weaker they are able to take targets down from a distance. Be it drones, or snipers, lowering damage in PvP is going to give the 'victim' more time to find the attacker. And in the case of spies, this really can't be afforded.
Dribble Joy
05-04-07, 15:03
but there isn't a single weapon in the game that deals xray as standard
Xbow?
Anyway, with PA a Spy can reach acceptable levels of energy resist, especially as they can double up their nanite shields.
pve isnt screwed...
newb -.-
It is and it isn't.
While is has been stated that mobs above lvl 64 are intended to be tackled by more than one runner, the xp gain for killing those under lvl 65 is appaling, rendering solo leveling rather pointless.
It is because ZEE germans have ZEE über-aim so all fights are finished in 3 seconds.or suck at making con setups :angel:
@dj: xbow is energy + mod now, not xrr + mod (odd i know - yes it was xrr on test server)
I don't think it's fun that you can kill PvP characters in 6 seconds if you don't miss, that's why I think that it should be lowered atleast 10%
tbh, this all is because of the runspeed nerf, which I personally think is OK if the PvP damage will be lowered.
I don't think it's fun that you can kill PvP characters in 6 seconds if you don't miss, that's why I think that it should be lowered atleast 10%that's (still) not the case when you involve ppu's (and stealth) though
personally i think larger health pools would be the ideal solution as it makes fights last longer from full hp to none, but doesn't mean they are harder to kill.. ie, with less damage you might end up evening out (stalemate) or barely out damaging a ppu healed runner.. you could just nerf ppu's and lower damage, but you could be nice for a change ;]
Im up for 5% i would like fights to last a little longer
Yea, I agree too, let the fights last a little longer.
Dribble Joy
08-04-07, 15:56
I thought about this a bit more, and if the situation with burst weapons (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=139286) is resolved, then a reduction would probably be in order.
Im up for 5% i would like fights to last a little longer
yea.. i'd say 5 or 10% (not much) but like someone stated.. the laser and rapid fire guns might just need a lil tweak. 20% is just to much.. thats almost 1/4 of tha damage gone.
50dmg would turn to 40dmg@20% 45dmg@10% 47.5dmg@5%
hummm.....
btw. parties are always better... but i could see times where you'd just wanna solo/hunting mostly
Granted I haven't had the xbow used on me since I've been back, but i still see the same complaints and have been told it's exactly the same.
Back in the day you'd see people running around with a First Love, Slasher, Executioner, Disruptor, Judge, Libby. MY point being there was a wide choice of weapons you could use without there being such a big gap in the damage being dealt. Now all I see is WoC stuff being used mainly. Sure the WoC stuff should be better, but the gap shouldn't be as big as it is.
I don't remember there being all that many PE's before the xbow came out, then all of a sudden having a PE was the cool thing to do.
hmmm... could u ACTUALY imagin how much damage melee would do in pvp if damage was reduced by any ammount?... you would have a serious fight on your hands agaisnt a level /45 spy with a TT Epic Pistol... :p
I'm saying fix the weapons first before you can accurately make a decision to alter the global damage %. Damn there's no vote option for that! :D
If its that simple, then please buff solely melee combat damage output by about 30%. The damage it does it currently laughable and I hate having to be HC on my tank.
Back to the old glory days of stabby-rip-stab stab please.
Reaction77
13-11-07, 18:12
The damage it does it currently laughable and I hate having to be HC on my tank.
Couldn't agree more, people complain about apu, but the real victim is melee. It does <50 damage a hit on an unbuffed character! Buffed; melee really doesnt have a hope in hell.
ashley watts
13-11-07, 18:47
Couldn't agree more, people complain about apu, but the real victim is melee. It does <50 damage a hit on an unbuffed character! Buffed; melee really doesnt have a hope in hell.
Haha try melee in an OP fight, it makes you want to /set kill_self RL
William Antrim
13-11-07, 19:21
Couldn't agree more, people complain about apu, but the real victim is melee. It does <50 damage a hit on an unbuffed character! Buffed; melee really doesnt have a hope in hell.
Nice quote but at least quote the original author of it in your sig wont you. Plagiarism is still bad sportsmanship, even in the 26th century.
Back on topic:
Boost melee, boost burst fire weapons, boost the RoF a tad on holy lightning too. Make Apus do SOME more damage, they die fast enough for heavens sake. Make the difference between non-woc and woc a bit smaller too. Like I want to see a reasonable difference between the two damage values, not a great gaping gulf like we have now.
I would not complain however if overall damage was lowered as I can aim perfectly fine. The Creeds/Ravagers need a nerf though I feel.
Dead Bodies
02-12-07, 16:26
*clears thoughts*
Well I believe MOST the Damage is decent. I like what most of the guns are dooing PVE wise as well as PVP wise. BUT there are some wepons that are not responding the same.
APu wepons are CASTING 10x slower and they even have a sort of aiming going on that i havent figured out, even capped pure APU. its not the same and i feel the old way is more balanced.
I do not like the damage as well on Burst wepons / Uzi's / gattling guns/melee wepons they are dooing far less damage then their prodessors, They are considered weak in this stage playes who pvp or PVM with them are mowed down in comparrassion to BEAM / Single shot wepons.
wich may be causing some people to complain about damage being too HIGH. What the problem is its just all the mobs outside of regants legacy are 10x harder & ppu heals dont heal verry good at all now. Aswell as the damage from all other wepons besides Beam and single shot are nerfed so their is not much option to use wepon wise. these are the few small problems that are causing people to THINK that the damage is too high.
I'm glad i could clearify
E&E
The Creeds/Ravagers need a nerf though I feel Just need to Up the damage on everything else per the post above.
William Antrim
03-12-07, 00:16
I change that comment now, Ravager is ok. Ion weapons need looking at though.
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